Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/13 22:44The V8 committee has published the rough draft of the first rules milestone for the creation of Version 8 of the rules of play. The link to the document is below for your reference. We would appreciate an and all constructive feedback you may have.
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duhtch
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Posts: 72
Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/14 14:08Thanks Kord. I have been keeping up with the discussion on esam myself. I think the main thing is the armor vs archery thing.
To paraphrase, they are nerfing armor to make it better. Where values will be lower due to not having as many modifiers. BUT...in this case, arrows will take off 1 point at a time instead of having 4 point hits completely negating most peoples armor. So this I think will be huge overall for armor wearers.
I haven't shot a bow in atmgard yet, nor have I worn armor, so I really can't chime in on things, but I am all for the rule change. If this happens, you might need to have some specialized arrows for Archer's though.
Overall, the v8 looks a lot more clean, which I really like.
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Casca
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Posts: 328
Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/14 15:18I was concerned about it at first, but the more I read and ponder on it, the more I like it and believe it is a balanced approach to dealing with some of the current issues with the rules. Certainly from a min/maxer perspective, armor seems "nerfed" since you can't wiggle 6 point ratings from leather, chain, and butted plates, but this is a good thing because it puts plate in its proper place. The only thing that I'm a little concerned about is the bouncing arrow thing, but I know I'm a little gun-shy on that having been the person hit with the arrow that bounced knock-first into me, albeit that arrow was an outlier, not the norm.Casca Eruoy
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duhtch
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Posts: 72
Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/14 15:22i think bouncing arrows is an idiotic idea. i don't like relating real life to a LARP, but how many arrows do you see really bounce? if it bounces a few times off the ground, and the arrow is still going and hits a rock on the ground to skip up and hit your leg, that counts as a hit, with the new rules. that is just plain stupid. or if the arrow hits me, and 3 other people before it hits the ground, so all of us are hit?
this really needs to be looked at again.
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Gworin
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/14 18:58^ This. I have to agree with Duhtch about the bouncing arrows thing. Despite being capable of only playing in near-empty fields with a lack of much to bounce an arrow off of, it still seems kinda ridiculous. It's a Common-grade Short / Longbow from the Medieval Ages, not the Railgun from Quake 3.
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Korderellin
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/14 19:24One of the most difficult parts of attempting a re-write of rules for a re-creation group is trying to balance historical realism with game playability. In this particular instance, the problem you have with the concept appears to be from the historical realism perspective; arrows don't bounce off of things, they stick into things, so in reality, we'd never have to deal with arrows bouncing. our arrows are covered with foam, and as such, we have to deal with a physical reality that does not mesh with a historical one. From a playability perspective, it becomes confusing for people on the field who are not directly aware of an arrow being shot at them to know whether the arrow bounced from the round to hit them in the leg. I would say that in most instances, archers are more likely to take a shot at an unsuspecting opponent, because there is less chance for the opponent to block or move out of the way of the shot, therefore increasing the likelihood of a hit. I can't tell you the number of times I have been hit by an arrow only to be told a few seconds later that I don't need to take it because it bounced. This causes a significant disruption to the flow of combat. Taking this into consideration, with the express goal of increasing on field time and decreasing reeve adjudication time, that a shift of this nature, while seemingly unrealistic, will significantly speed up game play and decrease on-field confusion.Kord
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Grendel
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/15 13:51having the bow user indicate the bounce/invalid hit seems more effective to me than changing the way arrows work. don't bow users yell out "5!" and "4!" and "AP arrow!" already?Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald
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Korderellin
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Posts: 546
Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/15 15:02Okay, let me paint a scenario for you. You are engaged in a two-on-one melee fight as the single fighter. It is a large-scale battle game, and there are a total of 5 archers on the other team, all of whom are potentially in range of you. You feel a hit on your leg, and you look down to see an arrow. In quick succession, you hear both "bounce" and "4" yelled out across the field, Both from the same general direction. How do you react?
Since you are not engaged directly with the archers in question, chances are you do not have the ability to determine which one hit you, and whether or not the shot was valid. Stopping to clarify puts you at a severe disadvantage, as you are currently fully engaged, and either have to completely stop the flow of battle, or risk getting mauled while your attention is split.
While we may not run into scenarios like this very often here, given the smaller nature of our battlegames, situations like this are not uncommon in other areas where there is a larger attendance base and greater focus on battlegaming.
By switching the mechanics of the arrow, it doesn't matter who hit you. You feel the shot, you see the arrow, and you know that your leg has been hit, regardless of whether or not the arrow bounced. We are attempting to move further away from mechanics that rely on people being notified they have been struck to it being self-evident. Communication during melee is acceptable, as you are right there next to each other, but during ranged combat, it can be difficult to communicate effectively without disrupting the flow of the game.Kord
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quieteyed1
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/07/17 07:42As an archer, I'm peachy with this rules change, thus far. Few questions, but if it encourages awesome armor usage, I'm for it. Tired of yelling '5!' all day too, honestly.
As for bouncing arrows, seen maybe five bounces ever. Skims one person, hits another. A few short arrows will tag legs off the ground bounce. No more questions whether it counted, and for how many points.
In short, armor up or I'll just continue to murder everyone.~Quiet
Hilariously, Emperor.
(970) 231-8701 ericsmall07@yahoo.com
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Krod
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/10/30 20:14can you post the link to the revisions for class revisions, I can't seem to find them and an interested in reading about Archer revisions.
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Korderellin
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/10/30 20:17At this point, we do not have the class revisions posted publicly. While the rough draft is completed, we are waiting until we get at least 10 playtest feedback responses before posting them, in case we feel it necessary to go back and revise some of the combat mechanics in responsse to the feedback. So far, we've only received a couple of playtests back, so it could be a bit before we actually get the class revisions posted.Kord
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Casca
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Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/11/01 14:58So.... If we playtest, they will come?Casca Eruoy
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Hannibal Finvarra
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Posts: 410
Re:Amtgard V8 Rules Draft - Combat, Weapons, and Armor - 2011/11/04 15:22Casca wrote: So.... If we playtest, they will come?
When are our playtest set for? I'd like to know so I could maybe bring some hot water for tea or cocoa so people stay warm this time of year... :/
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