i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 01:41i figure i should bring this into the public eye, since i may have screwed up here by being impolitic. i did already send this to rilla, before i decided i should post it here. my replies are italicized. i figure you should here what i did from me. i apologize for that guys, i should not have replied angry. and if this is something that will hurt OL's principality, it is solely my fault.
how do you solve the distance issue with Steel Valley? Is it true that distance matters, or only when you choose it to matter?
Example:
Cedar Rapids(Olympus) to Indianapolis(RW) = 392 miles Cedar Rapids (Olympus) to Denver (IM) = 801 miles Cedar Rapids (Olympus) to St Louis (WG) = 290 miles
Quote from Zumat "The single determining factor as to what kingdom you are (or will be) in is geography. Nothing more. Mapquest says these guys are 125 or so miles from st. louis (WG), and that would be well within the core of their future kingdom. I, personally, will not support groups who reject their closest neighbors, for whatever reason."
Quote from Cullum "Not true. The IM can define our own policy regarding sponsoring groups without any affect on other Kingdoms. In fact, something as simple as a statement that the IM will not sponsor any group that is closer to another Kingdom or Principality seat than it is to Denver would suffice. Add a similar clause for Principalities, requiring the group to be within 150 miles of the center of the Principality and closer to the center of the Principality than any other Kingdom or Principality seat, and the problem is solved."
Rilla
i don't know anything about steel valley, this is the first i'd heard of them. please explain. are you telling me that st. louis is already kingdom? i didn't know that or i'd have tried shunting all you guys off to them. it wouldn't have solved your problem, but it would have solved mine. that would have been great. as it is, the rising winds did not want to fix the prp mess for us, so i did it in the only way i understood how. i'd be more than happy to drop all of you over there in RW laps. especially you guys, since you've proven to have such a contrary philosophy to us. however, the RW is suffering from the same problem the prp did. they are too big and spread out, and they need to deal with that first.(according to both haydeez and clyde) so _I_ still have to deal with your area. anyway, 290 miles is not within the core of another group, OL still has safe borders if that is your concern.
i do not understand why you guys keep bringing up issues that have nothing to do with your situation. you had your chance to acquiesce to the IM's wishes, and refused. even if we weren't voting on the principality you rejected this week, you have, as a group, proven that you do not belong with us. (or with anyone who actually plays amtgard, perhaps IFGS is more your speed) _if_ we, as a kingdom, do something hypocritical with our groups and distance, it is not intentional, and doesn't change the fact that you dropped our principality because of petty and exaggerated reasons. i said i'd give you straight talk, and i have i only promised we would listen, not that we would agree. z
I didn't say you had to listen. I believe Steele Valley is what Olympus is calling their principality. And I just personally wanted to know the reasoning behind being hard ass on everyone else, yet allowing Steele Valley to join the IM in spite of the distance.
So, basically the answer is you realize you're being hypocritical. I can live with that.
Thank you for your time.
Rilla
PS I have also been completely straight with everyone. That is why people in the IM are pissed at me and consider us "contrary".
ah. i didn't know that they already had a name. thank you for clarifying. as i said before, the groups that are closest to you are _unable_ currently (according to haydeez--former monarch-- and clyde--current monarch--) to sponsor the principality (by giving it their full attention, they have other issues to fix), and since the prp was an IM mess they (rightly) left us to sort it out. i did say this in the email before. this is how we sort it out. and before you wave that hypocrite flag too vigorously, try and remember to use that quote of mine within its context of speaking about individual parks, and not organizational structures encompassing multiple parks. yes, there's a difference. your group needs to take its head out of that dark, stinky place it's playing backyard amtgard in, and realize it is not the center of the amtgard universe shining down on us with the right way to do it. hell, its not even the fringe. a principality is SELF-GOVERNING and can be realistically and reasonably left alone after its formation. if it wants to transfer to RW after its formation, i will encourage that move. as i said, i'd like nothing more than to drop this whole thing, OL, steel valley, and especially MotD, in RW's lap, but i can solve it quicker and better by just doing it myself. and st' louis is NOT a kingdom, so they do not yet count as a group that can form a principality under them. now that being said, i'm done being civil with you. i'm being a hard-ass on your group, specifically, for a couple reasons: when i asked for cooperation, starmount, as a group, said "ok, we'll do whatever you want". your group gave me a bunch of emotional rhetoric and complaints, and in baine's case, personal attacks. when i asked for solutions, you presented none, and just sulked because you don't like what we decided was best. you've chosen to isolate your group with the same influences you've had rather than branching out to get new perspective (you're vote being closed to "outsiders") which is unforgivably stupid. you're group will stagnate and die, when it had a chance to help direct something new from the ground floor. now when your group breaks down and decides to join this principality, late and ignorant, you're members will have to prove their worthiness twice as hard as those from a group who played ball. well done, you've really served your kids the best plate of amtgard shit they can eat. my last reasons are personal, and should have no bearing on what happens, but i'd be lying if i said they didn't cause me to push that much harder. you are fucking whiners. i hate whiners. you are complaining about things that happened so long ago, and were so damned minor, they'd get you laughed at in IMD. get the hell over it. you're playing a contact sport, and you signed a waiver. one x-ray? please... and next time you present a case, don't puss out and take it down from the forums before people who can debate logically can see it. you MotD guys should try and get your stories straight. your complaints have holes so big i can drive a truck through them. for the record, the IM is not pissed at you for being straight, we're pissed because you're being stupid and stubborn. be sure to bitch about this to whomever reads your livejournal. i understand its the only way to find out what you really think. zumat, minnesota livejournal's greatest villain.
ps. you're right, the IM didn't have to listen. that was the favor we did you. try and remember that before you villify us for disagreeing with you.
i would also like to add that OL didn't really have a choice in who sponsored them, being a remnant of our disastrous PRP.
sorry, again. politics is annoyin' lao z
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Rewth
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Posts: 1523
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 04:49know what Z? i don't see anything inappropriate here. i think your responses, while tinged with emotional frustration we tempered with maturity and authority. towards the end, when you discuss your personal opinion, that begins to break down, but then its wrought from honesty.
while you are emperor, you represent both the IM Empire and amtgard as a whole. you are also thrust directly into excessively dramatic situations that have virtually no emotional tie to yourself, but tons of emotional weight to others. To make matters worse, hundreds more eyes are watching your every move (or lack there of). i think your restraint and candor in the previous messages show that you are all too aware of that.
its a damn hard job, and i think you are doing admirably. keep kickin ass.
a little more in private, but thats the gist of it."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Rafeki
User
Posts: 350
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 06:23Hell no, I like his ideology that everything is public. We know exactly what is going on, and why.
Its fucking awesome.
That being said, you fucking lied to me Z!
You said so big i can drive a truck through them.
You dont drive! Liar!
On a more serious note, well done. Someone had to finally sit them down and tell them exactly how dumb and fucking irritating their shit is.Kung Fu is about the cultivation of the spirit.
"After all, all Dragoons are stupid and lazy" -Cruz
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Talisin
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Posts: 534
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 07:01If this had been the first, second or even third time these discussions had occurred about this, yeah- I'd probably be smacking you upside your bald head with the screaming battlecry "What the HELL are you DOING???? BE NICE!!!!!"
But it's not. We're not talking days or months, we're talking years of trying to hammer the same basic ideas home. That apparently makes us the drama queens, the instigators, the bad guys. So be it. But once you become the bad guy and have to put up with being slandered and having your words twisted whichever way makes them feel vindicated... well, one's ability to deal patiently with people tends to run out pretty quick.
We have a kingdom to run. We owe it to the people in this kingdom who abide by the rules, try to solve their problems and strive for something greater than themselves to do what is necessary to ensure that the kingdom is healthy, and that their future kingdoms are as healthy as they can be. Sometimes that means the gloves have to come off and the time not to be nice has arrived.
You're not wrong. And frankly, if someone tried to put words into my mouth, I'd be pretty pissed off too.
That said- remember that ballots are due by Saturday midnight, guys. Vote your consciences and for what you feel is best for all involved, regardless of what that is.Tal
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zumat
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Posts: 61
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 14:01i appreciate the kudos guys. however, i posted this so that if this blew up into something else you guys knew why. i should still learn not to stick my keyboard in my mouth. if i'm gonna be a villain, i at least want it to be for the accurate reason. z
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Casca
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Posts: 167
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 15:04I respect your candor and transparency on a difficult issue. You may not be diplomatic, but you are forthright which is just as, if not more, important. Though, I will disagree with you on one thing:
"for the record, the IM is not pissed at you for being straight, we're pissed because you're being stupid and stubborn."
I'm not pissed. I was pissed for about 5 minutes forever ago, but now, I just find this whole thing whimsically amusing. Casca Eruoy
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Takezu
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Posts: 717
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/17 18:43Remarkably restrained. I am proud of you Z.It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. --Aristotle
Patriotism: The willing act of putting one's life & well being at risk for politicians who are not similarly disposed.
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Skrag
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Posts: 16
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/20 01:45don't worry about it Z, no one in olympus thinks poorly of you to my knowledge. we'll accept whatever decision core makes, even if that means we get shuffled off to another kingdom. we wouldn't be happy about that, but you'd definitly hear far less whining out of us.
that being said, we await the core's descision with baited breath.
baronet skrag squire to sir micah helstaven of the duchy of olympus
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cio cio
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Posts: 237
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/21 22:21I like to know what's being said from the horse's mouth. If you've got the eggs to not hide what you say, even when it's "harsh" that's valuable in my opinion.
I want to employee the Jackie Moon strategy of "everybody love everybody" but for some reason you can't actually force that.
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FitzCaliston
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Posts: 169
Re:i may have done something wrong - 2008/04/23 00:57Damn you Z!!! That was freaking unforgivably straight up! I applaud you for your effort there and must admit that I'm a bit jealous that you got away with it. Every time I try to tell folks how stupid they are I get the opposite reaction.
Fitz
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