Mute - 2006/12/27 02:17A question came up at the park this week about Mute and Abilities. Can someone activate an ability like Natural Flight while Muted?
Mute (S, Control)
C: Bard 5, Healer 1 I: Repeat x5 “I silence thee.” R: 20 ft. E: Victim cannot speak or cast magic for a 100 count. N: Speaking requirements used in class abilities to allow others to know what the player is doing (sanctuary chant, etc) are not affected and may still be used.
The way I understand it is that you can't ACTIVATE a spell (or ability?), but if you have something like Natural Flight already active you can still say the repeated "Flying" part of the ability.
On the other hand, something like Natural Flight would make sense to activate even while you're Muted, 'cuz all you're doing is flapping your wings for liftoff.
Is this just one of those rules that makes sense for most cases and just wierd for others?Pain is only an illusion of the mind. If you can control the mind, you can control the illusion.
Thou shalt not be paid for thine methods, but for thine results, so thou shalt kill thine enemy at all costs!
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khadanbennett
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/27 23:20Natural Flight would be unaffected by Mute. Truth on the other hand would be unuseable, since you need to be able to ask a yes or no question.Noyan Genghis Scarpaw M.B. Eternal Flame Wolf Rider Clan House Ironwood
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Farlore
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 04:49What's the reasoning for that though? Personally I'd like to see something like Natural Flight able to be used, but how could you determine what could and couldn't be activated other than using common sense?Pain is only an illusion of the mind. If you can control the mind, you can control the illusion.
Thou shalt not be paid for thine methods, but for thine results, so thou shalt kill thine enemy at all costs!
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khadanbennett
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 05:30Farlore wrote: A question came up at the park this week about Mute and Abilities. Can someone activate an ability like Natural Flight while Muted?
Mute (S, Control)
C: Bard 5, Healer 1 I: Repeat x5 “I silence thee.” R: 20 ft. E: Victim cannot speak or cast magic for a 100 count. N: Speaking requirements used in class abilities to allow others to know what the player is doing (sanctuary chant, etc) are not affected and may still be used. The way I understand it is that you can't ACTIVATE a spell (or ability?), but if you have something like Natural Flight already active you can still say the repeated "Flying" part of the ability.
On the other hand, something like Natural Flight would make sense to activate even while you're Muted, 'cuz all you're doing is flapping your wings for liftoff.
Is this just one of those rules that makes sense for most cases and just wierd for others?
You already posted it yourself. If the speaking requirements are only to let other players know what you are doing, the ability is unaffected by mute. The speaking requirement of Natural Flight is only to let other players know what your doing, while with an ability like Truth you are asking a question which would require speech in any sense of the definition and would be affected by mute.Noyan Genghis Scarpaw M.B. Eternal Flame Wolf Rider Clan House Ironwood
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Loup DeNoir
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 05:43OH! ok... so.... like.. as long as the spell to take off has been completed which I think is I take flight X's 5 or X's 3 that person can get silenced and still fly for the fact that they are just stating wut they're doing. BUT if I get silence off before they state the spell... they can't take off?Wolf Wu Tang Clan Kurato Clan
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Farlore
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 06:02Oh, I must've forgot something, you have to say "I take flight" x5 before you can activate the ability, which is where the confusion came in.
Edit: Yeah that was my fault, I said all you had to do was flap your wings, but I never mentioned the speaking portion. Here's the whole abililty:
Natural Flight I: Repeat x5 “I take Flight,” to land repeat x5 “Landing.” E: Creature cannot be attacked by melee weapons while flying unless the attacker is also flying or Large. Creatures flying must still drop to their knees if wounded in the leg (simulates wounding the wings). Creature must flap its arms or state “Flying” every two seconds to denote this. Magic and magic-like abilities still require the being to stand still to cast. Only verbals and innate abilities can by used while flying. L: To take off and land, the creature must stand still. Unless noted otherwise in the description, a Monster with this Trait may use it an unlimited number of times.
Actually, I'm wondering what the official ruling is for all abilities.
Post edited by: Farlore, at: 2006/12/28 06:06Pain is only an illusion of the mind. If you can control the mind, you can control the illusion.
Thou shalt not be paid for thine methods, but for thine results, so thou shalt kill thine enemy at all costs!
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Medryn
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 19:14Again, "I take flight" is telling other players what is going on. Think of it this way if the incantation is explaining to the rest of the game what is happening, such as flight, tunneling, etc then mute doesn't affect it. If the ability is one that requires an incantaion i.e. heal then Mute stops it.
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Korderellin
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 20:02Medryn wrote: Again, "I take flight" is telling other players what is going on. Think of it this way if the incantation is explaining to the rest of the game what is happening, such as flight, tunneling, etc then mute doesn't affect it. If the ability is one that requires an incantaion i.e. heal then Mute stops it.
While by logic, that makes sense, by a literal interpretation of the rules, this is not exactly clear. The necessity of saying "I take flight" x5 indicates that someone is activating an ability through speech. It is the continual saying of "flying" while flapping ones arms that can be construed as letting people know what is going on, and is therefore explicitly not affected by mute. The initiation of the ability, however, is still in question. Now, the statement of "I take flight" x5 COULD be conceived of as taking the time to prepare oneself physically for flight, and therefore could be considered as letting people know what is going on. Under this intepretation, I would be inclined to allow someone to continue to take natural flight even while under the influence of mute. However, I would agree that this is particularly less than clear, and depends entirely on whether you interpret the repetitive incantation-like initiation of the ability as an incant, or as taking the time to prepare for taking flight.Kord
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Grendel
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 22:02maybe a good solution to propose to the CoM would be to allow mute to stop certain ability types, like stop magical abilities but not extraordinary
let's look at Mute:
Mute (S, Control) C: Bard 5, Healer 1 I: Repeat x5 'I silence thee.' R: 20 ft. E: Victim cannot speak or cast magic for a 100 count. N: Speaking requirements used in class abilities to allow others to know what the player is doing (sanctuary chant, etc) are not affected and may still be used.
ok, so if you're flying, you still can say 'flying' because you're letting people know what you're doing, I'm also uncertain if mute would prevent you from actually taking flight, but I agree it should allow you to remain flying if muted after having taken flight.
we can agree magic cannot be cast, what would mute then prevent if it also stopped 'magical abilities'?
I think that would make Mute really powerful, but it would define it better - say no speaking or casting magic or using magical abilities, however traits and extraordinary abilities would still be usable/function. I think this would be a pretty good change to the rules, what do y'all think?
here's a list of magical abilities (by class) to give us an idea of what Mute would prevent, and below that I have the extraordinary abilities to show what Mute could not stop:
Anti Paladin Steal Life Fear Reanimate
Archer none
Assassin none
Barbarian none
Bard magic caster with no 'magic abilities'
Druid magic caster with no 'magic abilities'
Healer magic caster with no 'magic abilities'
Monk Heal Banish
Paladin Extend Immunities Awe/Fear
Scout none
Warrior none
Wizard magic caster with no 'magic abilities'
and here's the extraordinary abilities (by class):
Anti Paladin Touch of Death Poison Weapon
Archer Bowyer
Assassin Poison Weapon Trap Touch of Death Teleport Antidote to Poison Assassinate
Barbarian Berserk
Bard magic caster with no 'extraordinary abilities'
Druid magic caster - one ex ability - Pass Without Trace
Healer magic caster with no 'extraordinary abilities'
Monk Transfer Life Touch of Death Sanctuary
Paladin Heal Resurrect
Scout Heal Antidote to Poison Truth Camouflage Tracking Earth Bind
Warrior Improve Weapon Improve Shield Repair Item
Wizard magic caster with no 'extraordinary abilities'
this could maybe use some tweaking if seriously considering.. like maybe changing some Paladin stuff to magic ability instead of extraordinary - like heal or rez.. I don't know, it kinda balances Paladin a little better over A.P. in the situation where the Paladin might get muted..Dragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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khadanbennett
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 23:07I like the idea, but I would like to note two things. The Monks Heal is an extraordinary ability and the Scouts Truth ability while extaordinary requires the Scout to ask a yes or no question. Shouldn't Truth be muteable?Noyan Genghis Scarpaw M.B. Eternal Flame Wolf Rider Clan House Ironwood
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Rewth
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/28 23:08actually... this is already covered, you jsut gotta jump around a bit to puzzle it out.
Glossary - page 68 "Magic: A spell, magical ball, neutral, magical class ability, enchantment, or fixed enchantment. "
from mute: "E: Victim cannot speak or cast magic for a 100 count."
"casting magic" includes all spells, magic balls, neutrals, MAGICAL class abilites, enchantments and fixed enchantments.
it does NOT include extraordinary abilities or traits. (see grendel's excellent list)
in the case of natural flight it is listed under Traits, and as such is not effected by mute. if it were listed as a "magic like ability" then it would be."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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khadanbennett
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/29 01:52That still leaves my question. Will Mute prevent the use of Truth. Wouldn't you still need to be able to speak to use Scout's Truth although it is an extraordinary ability?
Mute (S, Control) C: Bard 5, Healer 1 I: Repeat x5 'I silence thee.' R: 20 ft. E: Victim cannot speak or cast magic for a 100 count. N: Speaking requirements used in class abilities to allow others to know what the player is doing (sanctuary chant, etc) are not affected and may still be used.
Truth (S, Control) C: Bard 2 I: State 'Truth' followed by a single yes or no question. R: 20 ft E: The target must answer the question truthfully. If the answer is unknown the target may state so, thus ending the spell.Noyan Genghis Scarpaw M.B. Eternal Flame Wolf Rider Clan House Ironwood
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Takezu
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/29 01:57You can invoke truth while muted, and if you can ask a yes or no question (write it down or sign it) with out talking then yes. If not then no.It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. --Aristotle
Patriotism: The willing act of putting one's life & well being at risk for politicians who are not similarly disposed.
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khadanbennett
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/29 03:16I guess writing it down or signing it didn't cross my mind. Being able to do either and having it understood would be the next obstical. Unless precautions are taken, Mute will most likely thwart Truth.Noyan Genghis Scarpaw M.B. Eternal Flame Wolf Rider Clan House Ironwood
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Barthalemue
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Re:Mute - 2006/12/29 06:24Okay, but can a Muted person be Truthed? OR does the mute act as a lipock?"Let me explain this to you once. If I kill you: You will be awake, you will be facing me, and you'll be armed." -Malcolm Reynolds -Firefly "Your punch should begin in the soles of your feet and end in the back of your opponent's skull." -Tyr -Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda
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