Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/24 23:30bear in mind, none of this is an official change until it is put into print in an official rule book. but, these will be the changes that are implemented i nthe next month or so.
(direct cut/paste from e-sam)
Circle of Monarchs Meeting @ Clan 24
Meeting called to order at 10:10am July 22nd
Attending (in order of appearance): Kurse Kursed - Ruthless Dictator Brennon - Tyranical Overlord Jeremiah Bloodwater - BL Monarch Slyddur Rahbet- WL Regent Redhawk Longwing - WL Monarch Reine von Doom - EH Monarch Forest Evergreen - EH Drama Queen (and Regent) Warbird (Colnel) - RW Chicken King Blaise von Permafrost - Brennon's Tailor Raphael - IM Rules Rep for the BL Wolverine Darksword - Representative of France Warblade - GP Monarch Moonshadow Everdarius - GP Rules Rep of Invisibility Randall Andalsa - Poltical Activist Anatole - DS Monarch Glen(alt) - DS Rules Rep Medryn Darkjester - IM Queen Lief McPayne - IM Regent Verana - BL Hot Chick Kord Darkjester - IM Nancy-Boy Casca - NW Appointed Representative and Kords Boyfriend
Kingdoms with voting members: Burning Lands Wetlands Emerald Hills Rising Winds Golden Plains Dragonspine Iron Mountains Neverwinter
Eight kingdoms present, items require 6 votes (75%) to pass
Of the 69 rulebook items presented for a vote 28 were adopted.
Note: Due to some items being logically exclusive or dependant upon one another they were voted on as a group. I have made an effort to signify that here, but I don't gauruntee I've succeeded. The results of the votes, however, is accurate.
Pre-Item: Due to an administrative error an item was not transferred from the posted BL kingdom list to the Final List for clarifications. Monarchs voted to allow this item on the docket as it was through no fault of the BL rules rep. All kingdoms in favor.
Rulebook Items:
1. Require monarch and PM permission to summon monsters in the same way monarch and PM permission is required to play monsters. (BL) Pass 8-0
2. Spell casting: You may not begin the incantation of a spell or ability while you are maintaining the incantation of any other spell or ability. (IM) Withdrawn
3. Broken equipment used to block: Page 4, Rule #3, add to end "Broken weapons and shields may not be used to block, and a hit to one of these items counts as a hit to the arm or hand holding the item." (RW) Withdrawn
4. Blocking with shields: Shields may not be thrown to avoid being hit by spell balls, throwing weapons, or any other projectile weapon. A throw is defined as "Propelling an object through the air with a motion of the hand or arm." (WL) Fail
5. Monk weapons: Add "Reach" to the weapons classes available to Monk. (WL) Fail 1-7: WL for
6. Peasant class: Add to limitations: Peasant may not wear enchantments. (WL) Pass 8-0
7. Shield size: Remove #8 under shields “Round shields may not be wider than three feet.” (BS) Pass 7-1: RW against
8. Flails: Require that flail shafts be padded at least half (50%) of their total length. (BS) Pass 8-0
9. Shield padding: Reduce padding requirement on shield rims from 1.5" to 1.0". (BS) Pass 8-0
10. Daggers: Allow daggers to do 1 point to Armor, even when slashing. (BS) Pass 8-0
11. Improved weapons: Allow Improved Weapons to do extra damage against armor when stabbing. (BS) Fail 0-8
12. Weapon cores: Add: "Rattan is not allowed as a weapon core." (BS) Fail 0-8
13. Weapon section: Move all of the requirements for weapons to the Weapons section of the rulebook, including this section that is under Weapon Construction (page 8). (BS) MOD: Add note "See equipment construction section for more information" Pass 8-0
14. Pommels: Add: "Weapon Pommels must have at least 1.5" of Foam." (BS) Fail 0-8
14(a). "Make fun of BS" Pass 8-0
15. Spell cost: Make Wizard spells consistent with other classes that share the same spells: Reduce Wizards Wounding to 1 Point per Cast, max of 2. Reduce Wizards Hold Person to 1 Point per Cast, Max 2. Reduce Wizards Protect to 1 Point per cast, Max of 2. (BS) Fail 0-8
16. Yield spell: Change Yield "Other magic may still affect the victim during the duration of Yield." to "Only the Release spell may affect a person who has been yeilded. Carrying, subduing, and any other form of interaction is not allowed on a Yielded Victim." (BS) Fail 0-8
17. Antidote: Change Antidote to Poison to “as per the spell Cure Poison but may not be used as an enchantment.” (BS) Fail 0-8
18. Stun spell: Change Stun from: "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them." to "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them. The victim may not be moved by any means while stunned." (BS) Fail 0-8
19. Barbarian garb: Remove requirement for Barbarians to wear “Blues and browns, furs and leather.” & Change Barbarian sash to ”white.” (BS) Fail 0-8
20. Assassin garb: Remove requirement for Assassins to wear "a mask or concealing face paint." (BS) Fail 1-7: WL for
21. Bard garb: Change Bard sash from "light blue" to "blue." (BS) Fail 0-8 (Brennon hates bards)
22. Bard class: Remove requirement for Bard to carry a musical instrument. (BS) Fail 0-8
23. Druid class: Change Druid enchantment strip from "green" to "brown" (BS) Fail 0-8
24. Poisoned weapon: Change "People who are wounded by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." To "People who are hit on an unprotected limb by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." (EH) Fail 5-3: BL, NW, IM against
25. Imbued weapon: Change "Wounds inflicted by the weapon kill." To "Hits to unprotected areas by the weapon kill" (EH) Grouped with #24
26. Crossbows: Pg 7 Archery After “At close range (20 feet or less) bows must be no more than half drawn. “ Add “Crossbows are considered half drawn.” (EH) Fail 5-2-1: BL, WL against, GP abstain
27. Earthbind spell: Pg 22 Earthbind Change “E: Victim cannot move until each of his legs are struck ten times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. . Anyone attempting to free the victim must state .free this leg. while doing so or the hits strike the player as normal.” To “E: Victim cannot move legs until each of his legs are touched 10 times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon by anyone attempting to free the victim and must state "Free this leg x10" while doing so. Two legs cannot be freed by the same person at the same time. Strikes to a leg from players not attempting to free the victim count as normal hits to the leg.” (EH) MOD: Add the word "feet" after "cannot move" Pass 8-0
28. Spells: In all spells that have “white” as part of the incantation, allow “black” to be substituted. (EH) Fail 8-0
29. Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 3rd level Change “a. Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “a. Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH) Fail 8-0
30. Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 4th level Change “Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T)” To “Innate Ability (choose one from this list or any lower level ability not already taken): a. Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T) b. May now use javelins (T)” (EH) Fail 5-3: RW, NW, DS against
31. Assassin: Pg 16 Assassins 6th level Change “c. Take Poison Weapon again (must have already been taken once), Poison Weapon becomes (1/life)” To “c. Poison Weapons become Venom Weapons (ex). (must have already taken Poison Weapon)” (EH) Fail 8-0
32. New weapon: “Venom Weapon E: Acts in all ways like Poison Weapon except the count is reduced to 50.” (EH) Grouped with #31
34. Monk: Pg 18 Monk 3rd level Change “Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH) Fail 8-0
35. Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Change Third Level “Stun S Sorcery 1/game 1/4 20’ ” To “Stun S Sorcery 1/life 2/2 20’ ” (EH) Fail 3-5: RW, IM, NW for
36. Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Move Protection from Magic from 6th level to 5th level. (EH) Fail 8-0
37. Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Petrify to a cost of 1 point. (EH) Pass 6-2: BL, RW against
38. Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Feeblemind to a cost of 1 point and move to 5th level. (EH) Fail 4-4: IM, DS, GP, EH for
39. Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Regeneration 1/game to 1/life. (EH) Pass 7-1: WL against
40. Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Call Lightning to a cost of 1 point. (EH) Pass 7-1: RW hates druids
41. Guild symbol: Actually define what constitutes a guild's "symbol" (Garb rule #6, pg. 13). (CK) Fail 8-0
42. Class advancement: Fix the wording of the class advancement rules, concerning credits earned per level. I think we all know there's a hole there... (CK) Fail 8-0
43. Paladin/Anti-Paladin: Either make Paladins immune to Fear (Control), or make A-Ps subject to Paladin's Awe (mirror images of the same spell/ability). (CK) Fail 8-0
44. Rule revisions: Install revisions into the rulebook. (BL) MOD: This actually means "Install the rules revision PROCESS that we use into the rulebook" Pass 8-0
45. Throwing daggers: reducing the size requirement to a two inch diameter. Again this starts to eliminate the "noodle" standard of measuring thing. Not all noodle is created equal! (BL) Grouped with #45
46. Throwing daggers: should they have cores? This should be the monarchs' decision since that are ALL reeves qualified. (BL) MOD: The vote before the CoM ended up being "should we adopt the phrase 'non-rigid' into the projectile rules" Pass 8-0
47. Streamers for spell balls: three inch minimum and six inch maximum would be kosher. (BL) MOD: "Streamers may be no longer than 12 inches" Pass 8-0
48. Invulnerability: what takes it away? Terarin composed this list (see below) and it works. It clears up a lot on confusion and is a very nice reference. I know it needs tweaking with the shift from 6.1 playtest to 7th ed rules of play. That minor tweaking could be dome by either Garik, Terarin or myself. MOD: "Add an enumerated, living list of what removes points of Invulnerability as an appendix to the rulebook to suppliment the wording already in place." Pass 8-0
49. Missile block: Change "from striking the blocker" to "from striking any legal target". This clarifies that if the projectile goes on to hit another person the hit still counts. (IM) Pass 8-0
50. Missile block: Edit the entry on pg 24 so that the first sentence reads "Player is allowed to block arrows with their MELEE weapons without penalty". This would eliminate confusion derived from blocking with a throwing weapon. (RW) Withdrawn
51. Arrows: Page 4, Combat Note 7, change "Projectiles" to "Projectiles and arrows" (RW) MOD: All the "projectiles are not arrows" business is lumped together and fixed as a layout change to the weapons section of the rulebook Pass 8-0
52. Arrows: Page 46, Magic Projectile, change Material to "Projectile or Arrow, enchantment cloth", edit rest of entry to read "Projectile or Arrow" (RW) Grouped with #51
53. Arrows: Page 48, Protection from Projectiles, change "Protects from all non-magic projectiles" to "Protects from all non-magic projectiles and arrows" (RW) Grouped with #51
54. Shield size: Delete Lines 7 & 8 of the rules on shields, removing limitations on dimensions. Overall sizes the shields shall remain the same. (WL) Tabled for better wording
55. Shot diagram: Pg 4, Replace image with shot diagram showing where the valid shots are. (DS) Tabled for diagram
56. Padding: Pg 6, Add at end of padding description: 'Sometimes referred to as "courtesy" padding."'(DS) Fail 8-0
57. Spell ball components: Pg 8, Remove: "Magic components used in combat (magical balls, etc) must also be padded and be at least 2.5 inches in diameter." (DS) Spell ball components: Pg 9, Add at end of projectile section: "Magic components thrown in combat (magical balls, etc) must follow the same safety rules as projectiles." (DS) Pass 7-0-1: RW abstain
58. Javelins: Pg 9, Change from: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit, but must have courtesy padding along their entire length." Change to: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit and cannot be used to slash. A javelin must be legal for melee and have padding along the entire shaft." (DS) Pass 8-0
59. Projectiles: Pg 9, Change from: "All projectiles must be at least 2.5" in diameter." Change to: "Tips of all projectiles must not be able to fit through a 2.25" ring." (DS) Pass 8-0
60. Weapon covers: Pg 8, Remove: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth." Pg 4, Add to end of Strike-Legal: "This area must be covered with a durable, opaque cloth." (DS) Pass 8-0
61. Bounces: Change from: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground before it hits its target." Change to: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground, tree, or other static object before it hits its target." (DS) MOD: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground, a tree, or other static terrain before it hits its target" Pass 8-0
62. Spells: Replace all instances of the magic type "spell" with "verbal". (DS) Fail 0-8
63. Weapon covers: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth." to "Weapons must be covered in a durable cloth. Tape is not allowed as a Weapon Cover" (BS) Fail 0-8
64. Arrows: Add: "Arrows only affect the first person, or item (Shield, weapon, etc) that they strike. Deflected arrows do not count as a hit." (BS) Fail 0-8
65. Stabbing weapons: Change the sentence "Stabbing weapons should include extra padding on the tip" to "Stabbing weapons must include extra padding on the tip" (BS) Fail 0-8
66. Verbal magic: Clarify that "All verbal magic that target a person with StoneSkin, target the person's torso, stripping a point of protection in that area if applicable." (BS) Fail 0-8
67. Daggers: Pg 6 Change Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least twelve inches of its total length must be strike-legal. To Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least ten inches of its total length must be strike-legal. (EH) Pass 8-0
68. Leg hits: Pg 4 Combat Rules Legs Change "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical balls and some siege weapons)." To "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical effects, poisoned weapons, and some siege weapons)." (EH) Grouped with #24
69. Reversible spell balls: One of the RW wizards made up a batch of spell balls that can be inverted, effectively allowing him to carry more choices of spell balls within the allowable maximum. So long as no more than 1 spell ball can be a black one, does anyone see a conflict with the rules? I think not, but I promised to air the question. (RW) MOD: "Allow reversible spellballs for non-restricted spellballs" Pass 7-1: WL against
Dor Un Avathar After much debate it was decided that more time was needed to do a head-to-head comparison of Raphaels and Lukes Dors. Observation and comparison will occur until November 1st, at which point an online vote will be held to determine which book to move forward with. At that point any desired changes or corrections will be made to the selected document and it will be officially adopted. Once adopted the book will fall under the same operational procedures as the Rulebook with the Dor being open for revision on odd numbered years and the Rulebook being open for revision on even numbered years.
Awards Standard Propsal Revision 8 The attendees were provided with a copy of revision 8 (which is substantively the same as revision 6) and asked to give feedback. After explanation and discussion several items were voted on.
Voting Items: 1. The Circle of Monarchs wishes to bring Amtgard under a single, unified standard for the awards leading towards knighthood. Pass 8-0
2. The Circle of Monarchs Wishes to move Lions into the line of Crown knighthood. Fail 1-7: WL for
3. The Circle of Monarchs wishes to create a ladder award leading towards Crown knighthood. Fail 2-6: WL, ? for
4. The Circle of Monarchs wishes to define Lions and Roses in such a way as to remove the overlap between the two awards and make them comparable in difficulty. Pass 8-0: Of course, they couldn't decide on that language. They also voted that we should get blood from a stone and the sun shall rise in the west on Sundays. They made general, vague statements about Lions being for "leadership service" and Roses being for "non-leadership service." Whatever.
5. The Circle of Monarchs wishes to use Awards Proposal Revision 8 as the base for the Awards Standard. Six months will be allocated for collecting and implementing feedback on the presented document. At the end of six months a final version will be released to the CoM for evaluation. They shall then have the duration between the final release and Clan 25 to make a review the final version. At Clan 25 Awards Standardization will be brought up for adoption and a time-table set for alteration of kingdom corporas. Pass 8-0"But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Grendel
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/25 13:44let me guess, I haven't looked at esam yet today, but did Brennon write this post?
edit to add:
Scouts - we rock even harder, earthbind is even more teh rox. 27. Earthbind spell: Pg 22 Earthbind Change “E: Victim cannot move until each of his legs are struck ten times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. . Anyone attempting to free the victim must state .free this leg. while doing so or the hits strike the player as normal.” To “E: Victim cannot move legs until each of his legs are touched 10 times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon by anyone attempting to free the victim and must state "Free this leg x10" while doing so. Two legs cannot be freed by the same person at the same time. Strikes to a leg from players not attempting to free the victim count as normal hits to the leg.” (EH) MOD: Add the word "feet" after "cannot move" Pass 8-0
sweet, I can start playing bard again 40. Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Call Lightning to a cost of 1 point. (EH) Pass 7-1: RW hates druids
sweet! some progress 5. The Circle of Monarchs wishes to use Awards Proposal Revision 8 as the base for the Awards Standard. Six months will be allocated for collecting and implementing feedback on the presented document. At the end of six months a final version will be released to the CoM for evaluation. They shall then have the duration between the final release and Clan 25 to make a review the final version. At Clan 25 Awards Standardization will be brought up for adoption and a time-table set for alteration of kingdom corporas. Pass 8-0
Post edited by: Grendel, at: 2006/07/25 14:03Dragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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Rewth
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/25 17:43my short list of notable changes for those folks that don't want to read the whole thing.....
weapon construction was clarified or changed a LOT: large shields no longer cap at 36 inches if round, flail shafts require 50% padding, daggers drop to 10 inch blades(and now damage armor on slashes), projectile weapons (thrown weapons) simply can't pass thier tipsthrough a 2.25" ring.
arrows are now projectiles, but not projectile weapons (so thier construction stays the same.) additionally static objects can cause bounces (stopping the arrow) instead of deflections.
earthbind now only prohibits you from moving your feet, so you can free yourself or defend yourself no problem.
druids won the day having three spells made cheaper or improved: petrify, regeneration and call lightning. the downside as grendel pointed out, is that it boosts bards too. god i hate voice. worst game mechanic in the whole book.
on top of that, the Dor Un Avathar issue was tabled til a vote to occur in november.
and the kingdoms agreed to move forward on the awards standardization. though they were unable to come to an agreement o nthe lions vs roses thing, i believe they threw out the whole idea of an order of the phoenix."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Daenen
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/26 22:38Rewth and I were discussing this at Salt Wars. If you noticed, the Bard didn't get any buffs directly, but they beefed up Druid. Now a Bard can spend two spell points and get 4 Call Lightnings and 1 Petrify.
I was discussing this with Sev a minute ago, and he and I agree that Bard should have Voice taken away, and make a few of their better spells per life, i.e. Yield. I think that they should be the only class to get Yield as a per life.
Just my .02
DaenenI must not fear Fear is the mind killer Fear is the little devil that brings total obliteration I will face my fear I will permit it to pass over me and through me And when it has gone, I will turn the inner eye to see it's path And where it has gone, there will be nothing Only I will remain.
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Stormreaver
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/27 05:10Ok, normal state for me but am a bit confused on #s 45 and 59 45. Throwing daggers: reducing the size requirement to a two inch diameter. Again this starts to eliminate the "noodle" standard of measuring thing. Not all noodle is created equal! (BL) Grouped with #45
59. Projectiles: Pg 9, Change from: "All projectiles must be at least 2.5" in diameter." Change to: "Tips of all projectiles must not be able to fit through a 2.25" ring." (DS)
What is the standard for throwing daggers, am about to redo a bunch of daggers and dont want to have to do it twice. Would someone please clarify.
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Grendel
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/27 15:03Storm, it means the ends need to be the diameter of 2.25/can't fit the ends of the dagger through the ring.
so you'll be making dumbells if you just add some extra padding around the two ends of one of your old daggers. make sense?
also, just a question, why remove voice from bard? do you think that voice makes them overpowered? are you looking at the overall picture for the bard? I think they are well balanced now, before or after the cost change for the druid spells the rest of their offensive spells (aside from hold person) are all control, there a few classes that bards have no effect against unless using some magic from druid or getting physical namely - monk at 3rd level or higher, antipaladin, or by getting a simple protection from control (1st level bard spell) anyone can be immune to all bard offensive spells except 'hold person'
if a druid or wizard or healer comes up against someone with say pro control, they all have spells to do something else to the person, same for pro flame, pro subdual, pro death, etc. and lets not forget teleport, bards only way out of a fight (magically) is to cast a legend if there's a target in range - and then they can be killed outside of 20 feet. druid has plant door, pass w/out trace ability - so it doesn't even use magic points, then teleport for healer & wizard.
ok, so they can get 4 call lightnings when they are 6th level, or a finger of death & 3 call lightnings, or whatever they decide to spend their voice magic on - personally I've been taking commune and warp wood since they made the druid kill spells more pricey. I'll probably go back to 3 call lightning and a commune. anyway, wizard has kill balls starting at 2nd level with lightning bolts, then they get fireballs, verbal death spells later on. druid has 2 different verbal kill spells and petrify with a variety of other things. the incants for most of the kill spells are pretty quick and easy to get off, you really think removing voice and making yield per life will make this better?
"yield thy arms and resist no longer come unto me and be my captive" x 3 times that's a total of 54 sylables for a spell that makes someone walk over to you and follow you around, which can be countered by a quick hold person, or a friend kill w/a resurect, or a variety of other spells or abilities (scout entangle comes to mind, they can't free themself because they are under the yield, so they sit in scout entangle until the yield wears off then they free themself from the scout entangle)
finger of death x5 'I call for your death.' 15 sylables
mutual destruction x5 'I call for our deaths.' 15 sylables
please help me understand why they shouldn't have voice. thanks Daenen.Dragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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Rewth
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/27 15:55my problem with voice isn't that it makes bard more powerful. my problem with voice is that it makes it imposible to balance druid against the rest of the casters without at the same time indirectly tweaking bard. its a poorly designed game mechanic. the effect the spell has on bard is fine, its effect on druid is what sucks. i've heard it stated before "we can do that to druid because it would give bard more power" and thats just a bad thing to have i nthe rules.
i'm thinking about ways to fix it either next year or the following. either by setting a specific list of choices, forbidding certain schools, or only allowing certain schools. my other thought is giving druid more class abilities that aren't spells (assuming druid needs a leg up after the recent changes) if i can come up with a solution i think works i'll post it here. otherwise i'll just ignore it and figure that its gonna stay broken."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Grendel
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/27 16:30ah I see. yeah, perhaps giving druid some special thing that bard's can't access, like abilities, or some spells that bards aren't allowed to purchase.. we should talk some more, say chopstock?Dragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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Rewth
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/27 18:40sure. we can talk at chopstock. as i see it we have two years to come up with something!"But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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orion
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/28 16:18seeing as bard is a SPECIAL class allowed to acces another magic there are many option now that the spells are broken down into groups.id like to talk with you too rewth aboutmany things ive learned reading the rule book a couple of times,cool sweet."if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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orion
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/28 16:35you are after all GMR
Post edited by: orion, at: 2006/07/28 16:37"if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Rewth
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/07/28 18:50i'm available any time you want to chat."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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FitzCaliston
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/08/03 16:34Who in thier right mind voted to let daggers do 1 point of damage to armor on a slash?
This was one of the specific things amtgard as a whole voted against! It makes Armor esstenially pointless to all the drum rolling-dual dagger wielding-MFing backstabbers in the game. When someone can eat through 6 points of armor in roughly 1.5 seconds, on the run, it's completely broken!
This was the will of the Populace? I'm severely disapointed in the COM on this one.
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Rewth
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/08/03 17:44i think a lot of amtgard has changed thier tune on it. i personally see it as a very poor descision in the first place. fer the following reasons:
making daggers unable to damage on slashes led to shiving people with em.
i can drum roll almost as fast witha short sword as a dagger.
i can drum roll with a downward stabbing motion just as easily, but not as safely.
it sets yet anothers goofy exception to how a weapon can not be used. (the reason we pulled a lot of distinction between bludgeon and slash and pierce)
frankly, i think if someone with a dagger gets behind you, you deserve to die regardless of how much armor you have on and how many times they hit you.
.......
instead of setting a restriction on a weapon type, what amtgard needs to see is a rule agaisnt drumrolling as a whole. something along the lines of "a weapon must move 12 inches away from a struck target before it can strike again.". i personally can't stand the machinegunning of a single arm and people expecting you to take a death when chances are unlikely you even felt that they hit you more than once in the first place.
many larps that use a hit point system have similar rules. ifgs was "half the length of your weapon", others are "45 degrees between shots". neither are particularly appropriate for amtgard though (IMO). but our armor system has the same vulnerability as thier hitpoint systems and those solution tend to help."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Grendel
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Re:Rules Revisions results of the vote at Clan - 2006/08/03 18:16I can see that,
If someone drum rolls you without actually making real shots you could always let them know the shots didn't count after the first if they were buttering you. but the advantage to a shorter weapon is it's speed, don't penalize shorts and daggers because you can't hit as many times with a long ass sword, I'd hate to see that precedent develop.
I do agree shots should be shots, none of this sloppy butter rubbing/bouncing your sword on somebody and telling them it's 4 shots they have to take. course, it's already in the rulebook that that sorta crap doesn't count.
I'd like to see hulk hands made legal punching weapons, you want daggers to not be able to slash against armor, sometimes we don't always get what we want, I do feel punch weapons would actually be a bad thing for most folks, however with the rules on valid shots allowing daggers to slash against armor and do damage isn't really an issue unless you let the person get away with it/don't educate them on a valid shot.
I believe we can enforce the rules through proper education of valid shots, not restricting what the dagger can do to armor for this case.Dragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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