Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/03 10:01my next post will include the final list of PROPOSED rules changes and clarifications to be voted upon by the Circle of Monarchs at Clan this year. if you care to weigh in on this you need to do so before Medryn leaves for Clan. (the meeting is july 22) bear in mind this is jsut the proposed list. not all these changes wil lgo into effect. it requires a 75% vote of approval for a change to be made and as i understand it, each one is discussed openly before voting.
oh... and expect replies to this thread to be LONG.
Post edited by: rewth, at: 2006/07/03 10:13"But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Re:Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/03 10:01Inter-kingdom Rule Change/Clarification List
Rule Changes:
· Spell casting: You may not begin the incantation of a spell or ability while you are maintaining the incantation of any other spell or ability. (IM) · Broken equipment used to block: Page 4, Rule #3, add to end "Broken weapons and shields may not be used to block, and a hit to one of these items counts as a hit to the arm or hand holding the item." (RW) · Blocking with shields: Shields may not be thrown to avoid being hit by spell balls, throwing weapons, or any other projectile weapon. A throw is defined as "Propelling an object through the air with a motion of the hand or arm." (WL) · Monk weapons: Add "Reach" to the weapons classes available to Monk. (WL) · Peasant class: Add to limitations: Peasant may not wear enchantments. (WL) · Shield size: Remove #8 under shields “Round shields may not be wider than three feet.” (BS) · Flails: Require that flail shafts be padded at least half (50%) of their total length. (BS) · Shield padding: Reduce padding requirement on shield rims from 1.5" to 1.0". (BS) · Daggers: Allow daggers to do 1 point to Armor, even when slashing. (BS) · Improved weapons: Allow Improved Weapons to do extra damage against armor when stabbing. (BS) · Weapon cores: Add: "Rattan is not allowed as a weapon core." (BS) · Weapon section: Move all of the requirements for weapons to the Weapons section of the rulebook, including this section that is under Weapon Construction (page 8). (BS) · Pommels: Add: "Weapon Pommels must have at least 1.5" of Foam." (BS) · Spell cost: Make Wizard spells consistent with other classes that share the same spells: Reduce Wizards Wounding to 1 Point per Cast, max of 2. Reduce Wizards Hold Person to 1 Point per Cast, Max 2. Reduce Wizards Protect to 1 Point per cast, Max of 2. (BS) · Yield spell: Change Yield "Other magic may still affect the victim during the duration of Yield." to "Only the Release spell may affect a person who has been yeilded. Carrying, subduing, and any other form of interaction is not allowed on a Yielded Victim." (BS) · Antidote: Change Antidote to Poison to “as per the spell Cure Poison but may not be used as an enchantment.” (BS) · Stun spell: Change Stun from: "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them." to "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them. The victim may not be moved by any means while stunned." (BS) · Barbarian garb: Remove requirement for Barbarians to wear “Blues and browns, furs and leather.” & Change Barbarian sash to ”white.” (BS) · Assassin garb: Remove requirement for Assassins to wear "a mask or concealing face paint." (BS) · Bard garb: Change Bard sash from "light blue" to "blue." (BS) · Bard class: Remove requirement for Bard to carry a musical instrument. (BS) · Druid class: Change Druid enchantment strip from "green" to "brown" (BS) · Poisoned weapon: Change "People who are wounded by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." To "People who are hit on an unprotected limb by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." (EH) · Imbued weapon: Change "Wounds inflicted by the weapon kill." To "Hits to unprotected areas by the weapon kill" (EH) · Crossbows: Pg 7 Archery After “At close range (20 feet or less) bows must be no more than half drawn. “ Add “Crossbows are considered half drawn.” (EH) · Earthbind spell: Pg 22 Earthbind Change “E: Victim cannot move until each of his legs are struck ten times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. . Anyone attempting to free the victim must state .free this leg. while doing so or the hits strike the player as normal.” To “E: Victim cannot move legs until each of his legs are touched 10 times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon by anyone attempting to free the victim and must state "Free this leg x10" while doing so. Two legs cannot be freed by the same person at the same time. Strikes to a leg from players not attempting to free the victim count as normal hits to the leg.” (EH) · Spells: In all spells that have “white” as part of the incantation, allow “black” to be substituted. (EH) · Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 3rd level Change “a. Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “a. Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH) · Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 4th level Change “Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T)” To “Innate Ability (choose one from this list or any lower level ability not already taken): a. Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T) b. May now use javelins (T)” (EH) · Assassin: Pg 16 Assassins 6th level Change “c. Take Poison Weapon again (must have already been taken once), Poison Weapon becomes (1/life)” To “c. Poison Weapons become Venom Weapons (ex). (must have already taken Poison Weapon)” (EH) · New weapon: “Venom Weapon E: Acts in all ways like Poison Weapon except the count is reduced to 50.” (EH) · Monk: Pg 18 Monk 1st level Change “Heal (m) (1/life, Self only)” To “Heal (ex) (1/life, Self only)” (EH) · Monk: Pg 18 Monk 3rd level Change “Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH) · Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Change Third Level “Stun S Sorcery 1/game 1/4 20’ ” To “Stun S Sorcery 1/life 2/2 20’ ” (EH) · Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Move Protection from Magic from 6th level to 5th level. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Petrify to a cost of 1 point. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Feeblemind to a cost of 1 point and move to 5th level. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Regeneration 1/game to 1/life. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Call Lightning to a cost of 1 point. (EH) · Guild symbol: Actually define what constitutes a guild's "symbol" (Garb rule #6, pg. 13). (CK) · Class advancement: Fix the wording of the class advancement rules, concerning credits earned per level. I think we all know there's a hole there... (CK) · Paladin/Anti-Paladin: Either make Paladins immune to Fear (Control), or make A-Ps subject to Paladin's Awe (mirror images of the same spell/ability). (CK) · Rule revisions: Install revisions into the rulebook. (BL) · Throwing daggers: reducing the size requirement to a two inch diameter. Again this starts to eliminate the "noodle" standard of measuring thing. Not all noodle is created equal! (BL) · Throwing daggers: should they have cores? This should be the monarchs' decision since that are ALL reeves qualified. (BL) · Streamers for spell balls: three inch minimum and six inch maximum would be kosher. (BL) · Invulnerability: what takes it away? Terarin composed this list (see below) and it works. It clears up a lot on confusion and is a very nice reference. I know it needs tweaking with the shift from 6.1 playtest to 7th ed rules of play. That minor tweaking could be dome by either Garik, Terarin or myself.
Magic/Effects that are negated by subtracting one point of invulnerability: A blow from any melee weapon (any) A blow from any projectile weapon (any) Iceball (wizard spell) Magic bolt (wizard spell) Shove (wizard spell) Hold Person (wizard spell) Lightning bolt (wizard spell) Wounding (wizard/healer spell) Fireball (wizard spell) Mutual destruction (wizard spell) Touch of death (the effect of the spell, not the enchantment, though this only matters if you can wear two) Yield (wizard/healer/bard spell) Finger of death (wizard and druid spell) Doomsday (wizard spell) Petrify (wizard/druid spell) Teleport (wizard/healer/druid spell) Sphere of annihilation (wizard spell) Killing grounds (wizard fixed enchantment) Entangle (healer and druid spell) Stun (healer spell) Paralyzation (the effect of the spell, not the enchantment, though this only matters if you can wear two) Confusion (bard and druid spell) Call Lightning (druid spell) Flamewall (druid fixed enchantment) Feeblemind (druid spell) Immolation (druid fixed enchantment) Charm (bard spell) Awe/Fear (bard and healer spell) Any offensive monster effect (BL)
Rule Clarifications:
· Missile block: Change "from striking the blocker" to "from striking any legal target". This clarifies that if the projectile goes on to hit another person the hit still counts. (IM) · Missile block: Edit the entry on pg 24 so that the first sentence reads "Player is allowed to block arrows with their MELEE weapons without penalty". This would eliminate confusion derived from blocking with a throwing weapon. (RW) · Arrows: Page 4, Combat Note 7, change "Projectiles" to "Projectiles and arrows" (RW) · Arrows: Page 46, Magic Projectile, change Material to "Projectile or Arrow, enchantment cloth", edit rest of entry to read "Projectile or Arrow" (RW) · Arrows: Page 48, Protection from Projectiles, change "Protects from all non-magic projectiles" to "Protects from all non-magic projectiles and arrows" (RW) · Shield size: Delete Lines 7 & 8 of the rules on shields, removing limitations on dimensions. Overall sizes the shields shall remain the same. (WL) · Shot diagram: Pg 4, Replace image with shot diagram showing where the valid shots are. (DS) · Padding: Pg 6, Add at end of padding description: 'Sometimes referred to as "courtesy" padding."'(DS) · Spell ball components: Pg 8, Remove: "Magic components used in combat (magical balls, etc) must also be padded and be at least 2.5 inches in diameter." (DS) · Spell ball components: Pg 9, Add at end of projectile section: "Magic components thrown in combat (magical balls, etc) must follow the same safety rules as projectiles." (DS) · Javelins: Pg 9, Change from: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit, but must have courtesy padding along their entire length."
Change to: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit and cannot be used to slash. A javelin must be legal for melee and have padding along the entire shaft." (DS) · Projectiles: Pg 9, Change from: "All projectiles must be at least 2.5" in diameter."
Change to: "Tips of all projectiles must not be able to fit through a 2.25" ring." (DS) · Weapon covers: Pg 8, Remove: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth."
Pg 4, Add to end of Strike-Legal: "This area must be covered with a durable, opaque cloth." (DS) · Bounces: Change from: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground before it hits its target."
Change to: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground, tree, or other static object before it hits its target." (DS) · Spells: Replace all instances of the magic type "spell" with "verbal". (DS) · Weapon covers: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth." to "Weapons must be covered in a durable cloth. Tape is not allowed as a Weapon Cover" (BS) · Arrows: Add: "Arrows only affect the first person, or item (Shield, weapon, etc) that they strike. Deflected arrows do not count as a hit." (BS) · Stabbing weapons: Change the sentence "Stabbing weapons should include extra padding on the tip" to "Stabbing weapons must include extra padding on the tip" (BS) · Verbal magic: Clarify that "All verbal magic that target a person with StoneSkin, target the person's torso, stripping a point of protection in that area if applicable." (BS) · Daggers: Pg 6 Change Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least twelve inches of its total length must be strike-legal. To Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least ten inches of its total length must be strike-legal. (EH) · Leg hits: Pg 4 Combat Rules Legs Change "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical balls and some siege weapons)." To "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical effects, poisoned weapons, and some siege weapons)." (EH)
Miscellaneous
· Reversible spell balls: One of the RW wizards made up a batch of spell balls that can be inverted, effectively allowing him to carry more choices of spell balls within the allowable maximum. So long as no more than 1 spell ball can be a black one, does anyone see a conflict with the rules? I think not, but I promised to air the question. (RW)"But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Re:Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/03 10:46my personal thoughts.
· Spell casting: You may not begin the incantation of a spell or ability while you are maintaining the incantation of any other spell or ability. (IM) · Broken equipment used to block: Page 4, Rule #3, add to end "Broken weapons and shields may not be used to block, and a hit to one of these items counts as a hit to the arm or hand holding the item." (RW) · Blocking with shields: Shields may not be thrown to avoid being hit by spell balls, throwing weapons, or any other projectile weapon. A throw is defined as "Propelling an object through the air with a motion of the hand or arm." (WL)
---Yes please, on all three. the spellcasting one was my idea to begin with, broken equipemnt is kinda a no brainer, and i dislike the tactic of throwing a sheild into a spellball and claiming the shield is uneffected because its unattended.
· Monk weapons: Add "Reach" to the weapons classes available to Monk. (WL)
--- this on kinda bugs me. at this point monks would have access to everything except hinged and madus (due to lack of shields) i would rather see monks lose the ability to use polearms and THEN gain reach. monks are not a heavy combat unit and that much weapon freedom is not exactly balanced IMO.
· Peasant class: Add to limitations: Peasant may not wear enchantments. (WL) · Shield size: Remove #8 under shields “Round shields may not be wider than three feet.” (BS) · Flails: Require that flail shafts be padded at least half (50%) of their total length. (BS)
--- agreed on all three.
· Shield padding: Reduce padding requirement on shield rims from 1.5" to 1.0". (BS)
--- meh.
· Daggers: Allow daggers to do 1 point to Armor, even when slashing. (BS)
--- yes. oh dear god yes. the original rule was to prevent drumrolling. but thats the wrong way to approach it. instead, ban drumrolling if its an issue. hindering a dagger's ability to be used in a manor that hasn't actually been defined is silly.
· Improved weapons: Allow Improved Weapons to do extra damage against armor when stabbing. (BS)
--- dunno bout this. stabs have historically never done more than 1 point regardless of any effects (otherthan ap thrust). ii've never seen this as a problem with the exception of a lack of definition of slash vs thrust.
· Weapon cores: Add: "Rattan is not allowed as a weapon core." (BS)
--- shrug
· Weapon section: Move all of the requirements for weapons to the Weapons section of the rulebook, including this section that is under Weapon Construction (page 8). (BS)
--- yes
· Pommels: Add: "Weapon Pommels must have at least 1.5" of Foam." (BS)
--- what? this needs to be defined better. FAR better. where is this 1.5 inches of foam to exist? around hte core? on the end? is it a diameter? radius? what?
· Spell cost: Make Wizard spells consistent with other classes that share the same spells: Reduce Wizards Wounding to 1 Point per Cast, max of 2. Reduce Wizards Hold Person to 1 Point per Cast, Max 2. Reduce Wizards Protect to 1 Point per cast, Max of 2. (BS)
--- no. no no no. all three of those spells are particularly powerful. wizard does NOT need yet another power boost. conformity is nice, but in this case i think its a bad idea. i'd far rather see the costs o nthe other classes increased to match wizard if it has to be done. at least then you could reduce the caster level to make it a little more fair.
· Yield spell: Change Yield "Other magic may still affect the victim during the duration of Yield." to "Only the Release spell may affect a person who has been yeilded. Carrying, subduing, and any other form of interaction is not allowed on a Yielded Victim." (BS)
--- seems pointless. don't care one way or the other
· Antidote: Change Antidote to Poison to “as per the spell Cure Poison but may not be used as an enchantment.” (BS)
--- agreed
· Stun spell: Change Stun from: "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them." to "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them. The victim may not be moved by any means while stunned." (BS)
--- so i can't stun someone and then use shove to push em through a flamewall? why can't stunned people be moved?
· Barbarian garb: Remove requirement for Barbarians to wear “Blues and browns, furs and leather.” & Change Barbarian sash to ”white.” (BS)
--- while i agree that barbar garb is really dumb, i think white is a poor choice. i'd make barbar red, to match thier berzerk, and switch healer to white. then healer would match strips to sash as well (see druid below)
· Assassin garb: Remove requirement for Assassins to wear "a mask or concealing face paint." (BS) · Bard garb: Change Bard sash from "light blue" to "blue." (BS) · Bard class: Remove requirement for Bard to carry a musical instrument. (BS) · Druid class: Change Druid enchantment strip from "green" to "brown" (BS)
yes to all four. require facemask and instruments are pointless and difficult at times. bard garb is kinda common sense, and druid would then match thier spell strips with thier sash color.
· Poisoned weapon: Change "People who are wounded by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." To "People who are hit on an unprotected limb by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." (EH) · Imbued weapon: Change "Wounds inflicted by the weapon kill." To "Hits to unprotected areas by the weapon kill" (EH)
--- not sure i like these two. the end result is that if you are hit in an already wounded leg with one ofhte effects, you are not wounded, but would still be poisoned or killed outright. i just dunno. it would make poison a little more powerful, which is a good thing, but imbue is deadly as it is and doesn't really need a boost. it would result in a notably play style change i think.
· Crossbows: Pg 7 Archery After “At close range (20 feet or less) bows must be no more than half drawn. “ Add “Crossbows are considered half drawn.” (EH)
--- yes. with our inchpounds rule this is already taken into effect, just a clarification really.
· Earthbind spell: Pg 22 Earthbind Change “E: Victim cannot move until each of his legs are struck ten times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. . Anyone attempting to free the victim must state .free this leg. while doing so or the hits strike the player as normal.” To “E: Victim cannot move legs until each of his legs are touched 10 times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon by anyone attempting to free the victim and must state "Free this leg x10" while doing so. Two legs cannot be freed by the same person at the same time. Strikes to a leg from players not attempting to free the victim count as normal hits to the leg.” (EH)
--- specifically to clarify that victims can still do normal things, including freeing themselves. it isn't paralysis, its your legs being bound up.
· Spells: In all spells that have “white” as part of the incantation, allow “black” to be substituted. (EH)
--- no. mostly on the basis that its dumb. hte "black light of healing" sounds like a bunch of ravers and hippies.
· Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 3rd level Change “a. Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “a. Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH) · Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 4th level Change “Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T)” To “Innate Ability (choose one from this list or any lower level ability not already taken): a. Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T) b. May now use javelins (T)” (EH) · Assassin: Pg 16 Assassins 6th level Change “c. Take Poison Weapon again (must have already been taken once), Poison Weapon becomes (1/life)” To “c. Poison Weapons become Venom Weapons (ex). (must have already taken Poison Weapon)” (EH) · New weapon: “Venom Weapon E: Acts in all ways like Poison Weapon except the count is reduced to 50.” (EH)
--- yes. assassin really does need a leg up. when compared to scout it kinda looks less nifty. this would help and i don't think would be unbalancing.
--- yes, i'm ok with the very subtle change here (can still be used in an anti magic zone)
· Monk: Pg 18 Monk 3rd level Change “Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH)
--- no. the monk cruise missle is annoying enough as it is, and i don't think monks are exactly underpowered. i'm ok with giving them some love, but not cheesey love.
· Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Change Third Level “Stun S Sorcery 1/game 1/4 20’ ” To “Stun S Sorcery 1/life 2/2 20’ ” (EH)
--- no... that results in the potential for 8 stuns per game. if the new max was one, i'd be ok with it. but thats painful. stun is pretty damn powerful, and usually results in a death each time its used.
· Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Move Protection from Magic from 6th level to 5th level. (EH)
--- yes. spiffy.
· Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Petrify to a cost of 1 point. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Feeblemind to a cost of 1 point and move to 5th level. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Regeneration 1/game to 1/life. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Call Lightning to a cost of 1 point. (EH)
--- yes to all, except ppossibly the feeblemind and thats mostly cuz i don't know its effect well enough to guage. but druid needs a leg up. the only downside is this owuld result in a leg up for bard as well. we REALLY need to kill voice. i hate that ability.
· Guild symbol: Actually define what constitutes a guild's "symbol" (Garb rule #6, pg. 13). (CK)
--- sure. good luck!
· Class advancement: Fix the wording of the class advancement rules, concerning credits earned per level. I think we all know there's a hole there... (CK)
--- and that is what?
· Paladin/Anti-Paladin: Either make Paladins immune to Fear (Control), or make A-Ps subject to Paladin's Awe (mirror images of the same spell/ability). (CK)
--- agreed. i side with the paladins immune to fear as it seem more appropriate. however, i dont' agree taht this needs ot be done oslely o nthe basis of the two classes mirroring eahc other. thats dumb.
· Rule revisions: Install revisions into the rulebook. (BL)
--- uhhhh... yeah...
· Throwing daggers: reducing the size requirement to a two inch diameter. Again this starts to eliminate the "noodle" standard of measuring thing. Not all noodle is created equal! (BL) · Throwing daggers: should they have cores? This should be the monarchs' decision since that are ALL reeves qualified. (BL)
--- IF throwies do not have core, the reducing the size is kosher. otherwise i'm not so keen on it. incedentally this helps make the concept of "eye socket rule" go away, which i like.
· Streamers for spell balls: three inch minimum and six inch maximum would be kosher. (BL)
--- sure. i can't use a spellball to save my life so i dont' care one way or the other.
· Invulnerability: what takes it away? Terarin composed this list (see below) and it works. It clears up a lot on confusion and is a very nice reference. I know it needs tweaking with the shift from 6.1 playtest to 7th ed rules of play. That minor tweaking could be dome by either Garik, Terarin or myself.
--- i snipped the list. its a big edit change to install i nto the book and wil shift a lot of formatting i think. but... i think its a good thing.
Rule Clarifications:
· Missile block: Change "from striking the blocker" to "from striking any legal target". This clarifies that if the projectile goes on to hit another person the hit still counts. (IM) · Missile block: Edit the entry on pg 24 so that the first sentence reads "Player is allowed to block arrows with their MELEE weapons without penalty". This would eliminate confusion derived from blocking with a throwing weapon. (RW)
--- agreed.
· Arrows: Page 4, Combat Note 7, change "Projectiles" to "Projectiles and arrows" (RW) · Arrows: Page 46, Magic Projectile, change Material to "Projectile or Arrow, enchantment cloth", edit rest of entry to read "Projectile or Arrow" (RW) · Arrows: Page 48, Protection from Projectiles, change "Protects from all non-magic projectiles" to "Protects from all non-magic projectiles and arrows" (RW)
--- yes... though i think it would be simpler to jsut include arrows under the projectiles heading.
· Shield size: Delete Lines 7 & 8 of the rules on shields, removing limitations on dimensions. Overall sizes the shields shall remain the same. (WL)
--- yes.
· Shot diagram: Pg 4, Replace image with shot diagram showing where the valid shots are. (DS)
--- damn good idea.
· Padding: Pg 6, Add at end of padding description: 'Sometimes referred to as "courtesy" padding."'(DS) · Spell ball components: Pg 8, Remove: "Magic components used in combat (magical balls, etc) must also be padded and be at least 2.5 inches in diameter." (DS) · Spell ball components: Pg 9, Add at end of projectile section: "Magic components thrown in combat (magical balls, etc) must follow the same safety rules as projectiles." (DS) · Javelins: Pg 9, Change from: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit, but must have courtesy padding along their entire length."
--- yes on all the above
Change to: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit and cannot be used to slash. A javelin must be legal for melee and have padding along the entire shaft." (DS) · Projectiles: Pg 9, Change from: "All projectiles must be at least 2.5" in diameter."
Change to: "Tips of all projectiles must not be able to fit through a 2.25" ring." (DS)
--- i actually like this a little better than the 2" rule above.
· Weapon covers: Pg 8, Remove: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth."
Pg 4, Add to end of Strike-Legal: "This area must be covered with a durable, opaque cloth." (DS)
--- yes. its somethign wa all kinda assumed to begin with, might as well be the rule. courtesy padding doesn't need a cover basically (and neither does your handle)
· Bounces: Change from: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground before it hits its target."
Change to: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground, tree, or other static object before it hits its target." (DS)
--- no. only because static object is hard to define and trees should be able to be shot through (pine trees especially). i foresee problems with "that arrow hit a branch on its way to me, i'm not taking it" and "that clipped the light pole first!" things like that shoudl still continue on and simply count as a deflection, not a bounce (bounces stop an arrow, deflectiosn do not). and this would effectivley be a change, not a clarification.
· Spells: Replace all instances of the magic type "spell" with "verbal". (DS)
--- sure. its easier to distinguish
· Weapon covers: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth." to "Weapons must be covered in a durable cloth. Tape is not allowed as a Weapon Cover" (BS)
--- merged with the previous cover issue, i like this.
· Arrows: Add: "Arrows only affect the first person, or item (Shield, weapon, etc) that they strike. Deflected arrows do not count as a hit." (BS)
--- NO. NO NO NO. i like the first part. but deflected arrows MUST count as a hit. otherwise monks blocking is insane (and pretty dumb). i see a bunch of monks "deflect" an arrow, but still get hit with it. it leads to calls of "oh! i touched that arrow before it hit you(or me) so it was defelcted! don' take it!" given the location, i detect a bit of politics here rather than play balance.
· Stabbing weapons: Change the sentence "Stabbing weapons should include extra padding on the tip" to "Stabbing weapons must include extra padding on the tip" (BS)
--- sure
· Verbal magic: Clarify that "All verbal magic that target a person with StoneSkin, target the person's torso, stripping a point of protection in that area if applicable." (BS)
--- this should not reference stoneskin directly. instead should reference "invulnerability armor". but even then, i'm not sure i like it. there's something to be said about be allowed to target limb invulnerability insteado f torse when you want to. ultimately i say no.
· Daggers: Pg 6 Change Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least twelve inches of its total length must be strike-legal. To Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least ten inches of its total length must be strike-legal. (EH)
--- yes. this is a must in my book. right now legal daggers are extremely difficult to construct and then still be able to wield. jsut not enough room.
· Leg hits: Pg 4 Combat Rules Legs Change "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical balls and some siege weapons)." To "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical effects, poisoned weapons, and some siege weapons)." (EH)
--- still not sure. the wording here could lead you to believe that you are still wounded as well. so i think this one is a no, instead the prveious entries work better to me.
Miscellaneous
· Reversible spell balls: One of the RW wizards made up a batch of spell balls that can be inverted, effectively allowing him to carry more choices of spell balls within the allowable maximum. So long as no more than 1 spell ball can be a black one, does anyone see a conflict with the rules? I think not, but I promised to air the question. (RW)
--- shrug. whatever. i kinda thought the 12 ball max was a little dumb to begin with."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Lumpy
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Posts: 75
Re:Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/03 11:41· Shield size: Remove #8 under shields “Round shields may not be wider than three feet.” (BS) so does this mean round sheilds could be as big as the sun or they will now be smaller or what?
· Bard class: Remove requirement for Bard to carry a musical instrument. (BS) whats a bard without music instument? a karioki reject?
i'm a little bummed that the 1mm/18g thing didn't make it in...someday...someday and the laten matal thing didn't come up either i'm also bummed my dream oval sheild is still won't be a legal possibiltiy lumpy is blueYes, hate me, hate me with all your being and let the hate flow through you!
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Rewth
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Re:Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/03 13:14Lumpy wrote: · Shield size: Remove #8 under shields “Round shields may not be wider than three feet.” (BS) so does this mean round sheilds could be as big as the sun or they will now be smaller or what?
they will be required to fit the max of 8sq ft that exists. the max diameter of a round shield by the 8ft rule is 38.sumthing inches, but there is a secondary rule restricting them to 36 inches if they are round... it jsut doesn' make sense so its being proposed thath te 36in limitation be removed.
· Bard class: Remove requirement for Bard to carry a musical instrument. (BS) whats a bard without music instument? a karioki reject?
bards may still carry an instrument... but it would not be required. since no other classes require such an item it should be removed. mainly because it brings in the question of "if i pyrotechnic his flute, does that mean he can't cast anymore?" thereby nullfying a spellcaster with a single spell. its jsut a holdover from 6.0 that needs to be removed in the name of fairness.
i'm a little bummed that the 1mm/18g thing didn't make it in...someday...someday
my guess is, that proposal simply came too late given the extent ofchanges it would have on the game. since htere is so much existing armor in amtgard, changes to the fundamental way its rated need to be very well thought out in every direction.
and the laten matal thing didn't come up either
thats because as i told you, laten metals are not automatically penalized like you believe they are. only if they are significantly lighter, or significantly softer do they get dinged. basically, if you derive a in game benefit for having chosen that material over top of steel, you get dinged. if you don't and its purely cosmetic, you hsould not be penalized, and i will, as imperial gmr, re-rate your armor for you to ensure that.
Post edited by: rewth, at: 2006/07/03 13:15"But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Cullum
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Re:Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/07 03:16· Spell casting: You may not begin the incantation of a spell or ability while you are maintaining the incantation of any other spell or ability. (IM)
Needs clarification of "maintaining" an incantation. The only things I can possibly think "maintains" applies to are the Druid spell Commune and Monk Sanctuary. Monks can't cast spells, so as far as I can tell, this change would only affect one rarely used Druid spell. If the spell is that broken, change the spell.
· Broken equipment used to block: Page 4, Rule #3, add to end "Broken weapons and shields may not be used to block, and a hit to one of these items counts as a hit to the arm or hand holding the item." (RW)
This is a no-brainer. Once broken, a weapon or shield effectively ceases to exist.
· Blocking with shields: Shields may not be thrown to avoid being hit by spell balls, throwing weapons, or any other projectile weapon. A throw is defined as "Propelling an object through the air with a motion of the hand or arm." (WL)
Two words: "Pump Fake." If this said "spell balls affect unattended equipment," I might buy it, but not as is.
· Monk weapons: Add "Reach" to the weapons classes available to Monk. (WL)
What? Every weapon traditionally associated with monks is easily constructed to as either a long or polearm. There is nothing that "must" be a reach weapon. If its a matter of personal preferance... Yeah.
· Peasant class: Add to limitations: Peasant may not wear enchantments. (WL)
Sure.
· Shield size: Remove #8 under shields “Round shields may not be wider than three feet.” (BS)
I think that is perfect notation: BS
· Flails: Require that flail shafts be padded at least half (50%) of their total length. (BS) · Shield padding: Reduce padding requirement on shield rims from 1.5" to 1.0". (BS)
Eh, both of these are probably classified as safety issues, but I doubt either will make a difference.
· Daggers: Allow daggers to do 1 point to Armor, even when slashing. (BS) · Improved weapons: Allow Improved Weapons to do extra damage against armor when stabbing. (BS)
/echo Rewth
· Weapon cores: Add: "Rattan is not allowed as a weapon core." (BS)
Good God, what kind of Neandertals do they have up in the Northwest? ... oh yeah. This should be a self selecting issue; who in their right mind would want to use rattan as a core? It's too damn heavy!
· Weapon section: Move all of the requirements for weapons to the Weapons section of the rulebook, including this section that is under Weapon Construction (page 8). (BS)
Consolidation == Good
· Pommels: Add: "Weapon Pommels must have at least 1.5" of Foam." (BS)[i]
Where? Good start, unfinished amendment. Needs a lot more detail.
[i]· Spell cost: Make Wizard spells consistent with other classes that share the same spells: Reduce Wizards Wounding to 1 Point per Cast, max of 2. Reduce Wizards Hold Person to 1 Point per Cast, Max 2. Reduce Wizards Protect to 1 Point per cast, Max of 2. (BS)
Uh, no. Well, maybe okay on the Protect, but reducing the price of Wizard Running Magic is a power boost that Wizards don't need.
· Yield spell: Change Yield "Other magic may still affect the victim during the duration of Yield." to "Only the Release spell may affect a person who has been yeilded. Carrying, subduing, and any other form of interaction is not allowed on a Yielded Victim." (BS)
Which basically changes Yield into a mobile Protection from Magic. Yield specifically allows for the victim to be killed while under the effect of the spell; this change severly limits that allowance.
· Antidote: Change Antidote to Poison to “as per the spell Cure Poison but may not be used as an enchantment.” (BS)
*blink* Basically, turn Antidote to Poison into an incant based ability, not a prop-based ability. I prefer it to be prop-based.
· Stun spell: Change Stun from: "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them." to "E: Affected player may not move, speak, cast magic, fight, or use class abilities for a 100 count. They are considered completely senseless to the world around them. The victim may not be moved by any means while stunned." (BS)
Huh? This smacks of "you'll never do that to me again!" No.
· Barbarian garb: Remove requirement for Barbarians to wear “Blues and browns, furs and leather.” & Change Barbarian sash to ”white.” (BS)
"I'm not pretending to be a Knight, I'm playing Barbarian." While I agree that Barbarian Garb needs a rewrite, this is not the way to do it.
· Assassin garb: Remove requirement for Assassins to wear "a mask or concealing face paint." (BS)
I would like to see this changed to an "or": "sash or mask or concealing face paint." Regardless, I'll wear a mask as Assassin.
· Bard garb: Change Bard sash from "light blue" to "blue." (BS)
Agree
· Bard class: Remove requirement for Bard to carry a musical instrument. (BS)[i]
I would rather see the spellbook/scroll requirement put back in. While the words "Healers, Druids and Wizards must carry a spellbook or scroll" have been omitted, the "bookless" spells (Heal, Wounding, Hold Person) still reference them. Regardless, I think that we should standardize; either all the magic classes require a focus item, or none of them do.
[i]· Druid class: Change Druid enchantment strip from "green" to "brown" (BS)
Meh.
· Poisoned weapon: Change "People who are wounded by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." To "People who are hit on an unprotected limb by poisoned weapons die if they are not cured in a 100 count." (EH) · Imbued weapon: Change "Wounds inflicted by the weapon kill." To "Hits to unprotected areas by the weapon kill" (EH)[i]
The wounded leg debate. There are only a few classes of weapons that matter, and the proper place to fix this is under "Damage and Wounds to You/Leg" on page 4 (amend the sentence "the only exceptions are magical balls and some siege weapons" to include poisoned and imbued weapons).
[i]· Crossbows: Pg 7 Archery After “At close range (20 feet or less) bows must be no more than half drawn. “ Add “Crossbows are considered half drawn.” (EH)
Meh.
· Earthbind spell: Pg 22 Earthbind Change “E: Victim cannot move until each of his legs are struck ten times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. . Anyone attempting to free the victim must state .free this leg. while doing so or the hits strike the player as normal.” To “E: Victim cannot move legs until each of his legs are touched 10 times with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon by anyone attempting to free the victim and must state "Free this leg x10" while doing so. Two legs cannot be freed by the same person at the same time. Strikes to a leg from players not attempting to free the victim count as normal hits to the leg.” (EH)
Wordy, but I like the idea behind it: Earthbind does not function as impromptu armor.
· Spells: In all spells that have “white” as part of the incantation, allow “black” to be substituted. (EH)
Meh. Flurby, but otherwise unimportant. Allows more roleplaying.
· Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 3rd level Change “a. Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “a. Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH) · Assassin: pg 16 Assassins: 4th level Change “Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T)” To “Innate Ability (choose one from this list or any lower level ability not already taken): a. Up to two points of armor may now be worn (T) b. May now use javelins (T)” (EH)
I'm all for boosting Assassins, but anyone who thinks another Touch of Death is a power boost is dead wrong. I like the idea of giving Assassins javelins again.
· Assassin: Pg 16 Assassins 6th level Change “c. Take Poison Weapon again (must have already been taken once), Poison Weapon becomes (1/life)” To “c. Poison Weapons become Venom Weapons (ex). (must have already taken Poison Weapon)” (EH) · New weapon: “Venom Weapon E: Acts in all ways like Poison Weapon except the count is reduced to 50.” (EH)
No. That just confuses the issue: "Do I have 100 or 50 to live?" Plus, it is flurby and dumb
· Monk: Pg 18 Monk 3rd level Change “Touch of Death (ex) (1/game)” To “Touch of Death (ex) (2/game)” (EH)
See above, re: Assassin Touch of Death
· Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Change Third Level “Stun S Sorcery 1/game 1/4 20’ ” To “Stun S Sorcery 1/life 2/2 20’ ” (EH)
/echo Rewth
· Healer: Pg 34 Healer’s Spell List Move Protection from Magic from 6th level to 5th level. (EH)
Yes. This is totally in line with a Healer's battlefield purpose, and I don't think it will really change the class's power level.
· Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Petrify to a cost of 1 point. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Feeblemind to a cost of 1 point and move to 5th level. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Regeneration 1/game to 1/life. (EH) · Druid: Pg 33 Druid’s Spell List Change Call Lightning to a cost of 1 point. (EH)
Sure, no, dear God no, and meh. Imagine, if you will, your park's two biggest badasses, both on the other team, both wearing Regenerate so they're immune to poison, and heal wounds in a 50 count. Now imagine that 4 times in a row.
· Guild symbol: Actually define what constitutes a guild's "symbol" (Garb rule #6, pg. 13). (CK)
I would love to see this, but good luck.
· Class advancement: Fix the wording of the class advancement rules, concerning credits earned per level. I think we all know there's a hole there... (CK)
I think we do too, but when you put it in such broad terms, my idea of "the levels should come twice as quickly" fits just as well as the "I can't do the math to figure out what level I am" problem.
· Paladin/Anti-Paladin: Either make Paladins immune to Fear (Control), or make A-Ps subject to Paladin's Awe (mirror images of the same spell/ability). (CK)
Meh.
· Rule revisions: Install revisions into the rulebook. (BL)
Um... my rulebook already has the revisions in it. Has since November of last year. At least, if "revision" means "changes from the CoM at Clan." If not, then I don't even know what this means.
· Throwing daggers: reducing the size requirement to a two inch diameter. Again this starts to eliminate the "noodle" standard of measuring thing. Not all noodle is created equal! (BL)
It's not a popular opinion, but I like smaller throwing daggers. So sue me.
· Throwing daggers: should they have cores? This should be the monarchs' decision since that are ALL reeves qualified. (BL)
Define "core." Should there be a stick inside the throwing dagger? Probably not. Should there be some sort of weighted, non-foam chewy center? Yes.
· Streamers for spell balls: three inch minimum and six inch maximum would be kosher. (BL)
I've never really understood the idea of streamers; as far as I can tell, they don't really impact a spellball's flight characteristics, except maybe to slow them down. Why have a min/max range?
· Invulnerability: what takes it away? Terarin composed this list (see below) and it works. It clears up a lot on confusion and is a very nice reference. I know it needs tweaking with the shift from 6.1 playtest to 7th ed rules of play. That minor tweaking could be dome by either Garik, Terarin or myself.
*blink* How about "any offensive spell, ability or physical hit that the target is not otherwise immune to"?
Rule Clarifications:
· Missile block: Change "from striking the blocker" to "from striking any legal target". This clarifies that if the projectile goes on to hit another person the hit still counts. (IM) · Missile block: Edit the entry on pg 24 so that the first sentence reads "Player is allowed to block arrows with their MELEE weapons without penalty". This would eliminate confusion derived from blocking with a throwing weapon. (RW) · Arrows: Page 4, Combat Note 7, change "Projectiles" to "Projectiles and arrows" (RW) · Arrows: Page 46, Magic Projectile, change Material to "Projectile or Arrow, enchantment cloth", edit rest of entry to read "Projectile or Arrow" (RW) · Arrows: Page 48, Protection from Projectiles, change "Protects from all non-magic projectiles" to "Protects from all non-magic projectiles and arrows" (RW)
Agree on all points. The Arrow/Projectile issue points to a hold over from 6.0, where Arrows were Projectiles.
· Shield size: Delete Lines 7 & 8 of the rules on shields, removing limitations on dimensions. Overall sizes the shields shall remain the same. (WL)
Seems to me that this is not a clarification, but rather an actual change. Hey look, someone else thought so too!
· Shot diagram: Pg 4, Replace image with shot diagram showing where the valid shots are. (DS) · Padding: Pg 6, Add at end of padding description: 'Sometimes referred to as "courtesy" padding."'(DS)
Meh.
· Spell ball components: Pg 8, Remove: "Magic components used in combat (magical balls, etc) must also be padded and be at least 2.5 inches in diameter." (DS) · Spell ball components: Pg 9, Add at end of projectile section: "Magic components thrown in combat (magical balls, etc) must follow the same safety rules as projectiles." (DS)
This is a good rule change. As such, the two bullets should be condensed into one and moved to the changes section.
· Javelins: Pg 9, Change from: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit, but must have courtesy padding along their entire length." Change to: "Javelins must strike point first to count as a hit and cannot be used to slash. A javelin must be legal for melee and have padding along the entire shaft." (DS)
The problem here is that throwing spears can be built with a cutting edge as well as a piercing tip. I personally don't believe that a spear or javelin has to be stab only. Also, this is a rules change, not a clarification.
· Projectiles: Pg 9, Change from: "All projectiles must be at least 2.5" in diameter." Change to: "Tips of all projectiles must not be able to fit through a 2.25" ring." (DS)
Fair enough. Again, this is a change, not a clarification.
· Weapon covers: Pg 8, Remove: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth." Pg 4, Add to end of Strike-Legal: "This area must be covered with a durable, opaque cloth." (DS)
Smacks of fixing a rules-lawyer. As such, I approve.
· Bounces: Change from: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground before it hits its target." Change to: "A projectile, arrow, or magic ball hitting the ground, tree, or other static object before it hits its target." (DS)
/echo Rewth
· Spells: Replace all instances of the magic type "spell" with "verbal". (DS)
Quite wary of broad "search-and-replace" changes. I'd like to know why, and what the change is intended to do.
· Weapon covers: "Weapons must be covered in a durable, opaque cloth." to "Weapons must be covered in a durable cloth. Tape is not allowed as a Weapon Cover" (BS)
Combine this with the DS clarification above.
· Arrows: Add: "Arrows only affect the first person, or item (Shield, weapon, etc) that they strike. Deflected arrows do not count as a hit." (BS)
Already covered by a better worded clarification above.
· Stabbing weapons: Change the sentence "Stabbing weapons should include extra padding on the tip" to "Stabbing weapons must include extra padding on the tip" (BS)
Define "extra."
· Verbal magic: Clarify that "All verbal magic that target a person with StoneSkin, target the person's torso, stripping a point of protection in that area if applicable." (BS)
No. Maybe "All verbal magic that is not specifically targeted affects the Torso," though.
· Daggers: Pg 6 Change Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least twelve inches of its total length must be strike-legal. To Dagger: A slashing or piercing weapon up to 18 inches long. At least ten inches of its total length must be strike-legal. (EH)
Agree
· Leg hits: Pg 4 Combat Rules Legs Change "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical balls and some siege weapons)." To "Any following hits to that leg will have no effect (the only exceptions are magical effects, poisoned weapons, and some siege weapons)." (EH)
This is redundant with the proposed changes to Poison and Imbue Weapon. However, I think that this clarification is the better path, not the change.
Miscellaneous
· Reversible spell balls: One of the RW wizards made up a batch of spell balls that can be inverted, effectively allowing him to carry more choices of spell balls within the allowable maximum. So long as no more than 1 spell ball can be a black one, does anyone see a conflict with the rules? I think not, but I promised to air the question. (RW)
I've never actually understood the limit on spellballs carried. I would rather just lift that limitation. If you want to lug around a backpack full of balls so you never run out, more power to you. Otherwise, I think this is quite an ingeneous way to get around the limit.
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orion
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Posts: 181
Re:Interkingdom Rules Revision List - PROPOSED - 2006/07/07 08:53Throwing daggers: reducing the size requirement to a two inch diameter. Again this starts to eliminate the "noodle" standard of measuring thing. Not all noodle is created equal! (BL)
Agree with that
· Missile block: Change "from striking the blocker" to "from striking any legal target". This clarifies that if the projectile goes on to hit another person the hit still counts. (IM)
They should also clarify if monks at higher levels could actually catch a thrown weapon."if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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