Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/06 14:08I am not trying to blame anyone for my failure. I never said otherwise. I was trying to let people know how I am feeling over all this. If people dont know what happened that was wrong, they can never change it. One of the reasons we use notes on A&S turneys. To help people correct their mistakes.
Yes I am angry, but not that someone didnt walk me through it by hand, but that I was given a lot of miss-information. Again not that I am trying to blame them for something I guess I should have known, and by the way it is not in the corpora what catagory arrows go in I have been told at least 3 different ones by Serpent Knights. Who is right? I dont know. Totem was going to help me out in that area, but got too busy to do so. Not her fault, again my own for relying on someone to help me with something I supposedly was supposed to know. Nevermind the fact that I have only played a year, nevermind that fact that I have never entered an Imperial Crown Qual and only 1 Dragonmaster in which I only entered 2 items. Totem was doing all she could to help me, but I am not her squire which she was trying to help at the time in addition to running an Imperial A&S Qual. which she has never run before.
Also I have been told of another issue which people are again talking about when they do not have all the information.
There was an incedent that happened at Darkmoon where things got heated and I was asked to leave and told good riddence. These things were said out of the heat of anger and were resolved by the 2 people in which it involved. They were resolved the VERY NEXT week. I was concidering leaving Darkmoon and moving to CD so that I could fight without having to fight this person whom I had the encounter with because I dont want to have another incedent. Check the ORK I am still listed as being in Darkmoon. Also I have been told that I am not the only one to have a problem with this person and that there are many who have left Darkmoon because of this person. When I came back the next week I talked to the monarch of the group and told him I would be leaving office but that until he found someone as regent I would be there to help in any way he needed me. That person is Jerimi ask him yourself if you like. I NEVER left a void. I dont do crap like that. Its not right and not fair to the ones whom have put their trust in you. As I said in my last post if I am going to do something I put my all into it. I also had to step down anyway because Darkmoon doesnt hold their office elections until AFTER Rakis. If I was running for Imperial office I would have to step down. So I did.
Again I will state, Darkmoon does not have copies of the Corpora or Reeves test so even if I had known that I was to take them before I wouldnt have been able to. Darkmoon has not had either of these tests in quite some time. I qualified for the reeve on the on line test last year some time.
Also I asked several people about taking the tests on Saturday at the Crown Quals. I was told no one had the tests. I cant take a test that is not there to take.
To all of you who have been discussing this, next time please get your information straight. Rumors are just that, rumors.
Katheryne
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Talisin
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/06 14:41Katheryne wrote: Yes I am angry, but not that someone didnt walk me through it by hand, but that I was given a lot of miss-information.
Well, I don't know what to tell you on that. I am sorry that you felt you received bad guidance, I don't think anyone intended that to happen. It sounds like it was probably miscommunication- if anything, it sounds like people expected you to know more than you felt you did and maybe they just didn't understand that you felt you needed more help. I wish we had had a chance to talk before quals, if anything I tend to give people all the worst case scenarios and perhaps that might have helped (or scared you to death, one or the other).Tal
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Medryn
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/06 17:30Katheryne wrote: Yes I am angry, but not that someone didnt walk me through it by hand, but that I was given a lot of miss-information.
As one of the two crown knights at quals I's like to point out that I very specifically said that I wasn't certain what would happen. I indicated (at least to Artimus) that there were several possibilities, including opening the election up to anyone. I apologize if I was not clear in my explanation, and I am sorry that a misunderstanding occured.
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Gone
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/06 17:34Tal, lol Probably both!
Ok, here is the scoop as it stands. Artimus no longer wants to hold Imperial office. He wants me to try and find someone who would be willing to run with me as my Regent.
Anyone willing?
To do this I will have to re-qualify. I was told by Takezu that I would have to and that I would be able to use the items I have already made (maybe I can get them in the right catagories). I will work on those and will make some new ones.
I also intend to find a copy of the tests and take them. Someone HELP!!! I need the tests!!! Darkmoon needs them as well!!!!
So if there is anyone willing to step up with me...
If not...
From my previous post I told you I wanted to have a Pirate reign. Do you have a little pirate in you? Come on you know you do. I have lots of ideas for quests which will be held in each group for a quest item, then they will have to put these items together to defeat a common foe. Some of this will include need for role play because some items you wont be able to fight for and have talked to Takezu a little about Glitterbeards/Chopstock and hope to talk more with him about that.
So if this sounds fun to you, you know it does, step on up and lets run!
Katheryne
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Gone
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/06 17:37Did I mention I dont give up easily?
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Medryn
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/06 22:20He sat very still on the icy throne. The dead have a stillness about them that can not be matched. His eyes however were very much alive. They danced over the images that played out on the scrying pool below him: An Empire in disarray, armies scattered. All was going according to plan, now was the perfect time for action.
Soon a select few of his zombie lords would make their way down the mountains, spreading panic and death as they went. And spreading more than that, spreading their black blood, animating more zombie warriors for his armies, and possibly freeing some of the Ancient Dead. As the zombies traveled they would create an army large enough to lay siege to the famous castles of the Empire, killing all mortals in their paths.
With a wave of his skeletal hand he cleared the scrying pool and called to one of his Death Knights, “Are the armies ready to move?”
The cursed knight nodded his helmet, hollow except for two glowing eyes. “Yes Your Majesty, we await only your orders.”
He stood and strode out of the throne room, his Death Knights falling in to formation around him. The courtyard was cold, but none of the inhabitants could feel the bite of the wind, nor would the snow melt when it touched what was left of their bodies. Beyond the gates were even more of the dead, all wanting one thing, to taste the flesh and blood of the living.
He spoke a single word, “march.” and as one the armies took one step closer to the Empire, then another, and another. Relentlessly they moved forward, dead eyes never blinking despite the glaring sun.
Miles away the people of the Empire continued with their lives, oblivious to their peril. Darkness would soon stretch across the Empire. The Lich King was coming.
To the Populace and Peers of the Iron Mountains: Greetings,
We regret that this announcement comes so late, but we feel that considering the circumstances we are compelled to make it. As of now, we announce our intent to run for and win the positions of Monarch and Regent of the Iron Mountains.
Count Sir Medryn Harlequin-Darkjester, Knight of the Serpent, Knight of the Crown Grand Duke Sir Lief McPayne, Knight of the Sword, Knight of the Flame
Post edited by: medryn, at: 2006/06/06 22:26
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cio cio
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/07 06:08Katheryne wrote: Did I mention I dont give up easily?
I'd help ya' but I'm outside the Core!
Sorry your first run for office wasn't as fun as it coulda been. When the dust has settled, if ya want someone to talk to, gimme a holler. Besides, I'll see ya at Rakis!
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Takezu
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/07 09:22Reminder that declarations close at noon today(6-7-06).It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. --Aristotle
Patriotism: The willing act of putting one's life & well being at risk for politicians who are not similarly disposed.
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Takezu
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/07 12:47Looks like Count Sir Medryn Harlequin-Darkjester, Knight of the Serpent, Knight of the Crown Grand Duke Sir Lief McPayne, Knight of the Sword, Knight of the Flame are the only ticket on the emergency ticket, I will be sending out ballot very soon.It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. --Aristotle
Patriotism: The willing act of putting one's life & well being at risk for politicians who are not similarly disposed.
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Takezu
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/07 14:22Here is the ballot:
Iron Mountains June 2006 Emergency Allthing Ballot
This ballot must be returned to your local Prime Minister before midnight June 9th. It will not be accepted without your name and province on the lines above. If you wish to vote privately, you may either email your ballot results to Ichiban@wakagashira.com or bring your ballot to him at the sit-down portion of the allthing. The sit-down allthing will be held at in IMD on June 10th. You must be voting eligible and dues paid to vote. Speak with your local Prime Minister if you are unsure.
Emergency allthing proposal: Should Count Sir Medryn Harlequin-Darkjester, Grand Duke Sir Lief McPayne, be allowed to step up as the Imperial Monarchy with out pre qualifying. But will be required to qualify soon after Rakis at a date that has yet to be determined? ____ Yea
_____ Ney
____ abstain
Local PM's PLEASE get these ballots to your populace and back to me ASAP!!!!
If you need help please let me know!
TakezuIt is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. --Aristotle
Patriotism: The willing act of putting one's life & well being at risk for politicians who are not similarly disposed.
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FitzCaliston
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/07 20:29I, like rewth didn't want to touch this thread, I do enough to "shot myself in the foot" without the need for help. However,
Talisin wrote: The Corpora allows the test to be taken at any time before, or as part of Quals.
it dawns on me that at least this part of the qualing process was not the candidates fault as they have mentioned with the lack of tests at the quals event.
Since the tests were not given at the event , (not the candidates fault), and were not available before the event, (again not thier fault), it seems only logical that that part of the equation be allowed some sway (in otherwords letting them take the tests as soon as possible, or within 2 weeks). In fact the corpora does not mandate a time period for quals. It says to take the tests as part of Quals. And it says the highest outgoing officer (excluding pm) who is not a crown candidate is in charge of the quals. Therefor the person running quals can determine how long they have to take and pass the tests since they determine the length of Quals.
Granted the A&S portion of the qualling is another factor. I have opinions there as well which lead me to ask why the candidates were not asked why certain items were placed into one category as opposed to another? Grading down or disqualifing items because you think an item would have been suited better under a different category, espeically when it could be a clerical error for all you know is just redicules. Did anyone ask them why items were placed in the categories they were?
Not trying to cause waves here, just disappointed at how this seems to have been handled from the reading here. It seems way overly harsh to me especially with the amount of effort it seems was made on the candidates part. And sorry the response is so late in the game, I rarely get a chance to peruse the IM boards these days and only came looking for an explanation of why Med and Lief were now running.
Fitz
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Talisin
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/07 21:14FitzCaliston wrote: It dawns on me that at least this part of the qualing process was not the candidates fault as they have mentioned with the lack of tests at the quals event.
There apparently were tests there; why that wasn't made known, I don't know. I was pretty much confined to the judging area the whole day, but I never heard anyone ask about them. Doesn't mean they didn't. Tests were announced as being available back in the middle of May on the list.
In fact the corpora does not mandate a time period for quals. It says to take the tests as part of Quals. And it says the highest outgoing officer (excluding pm) who is not a crown candidate is in charge of the quals. Therefor the person running quals can determine how long they have to take and pass the tests since they determine the length of Quals.
By that logic, the person "in charge" of quals could announce that Quals lasts a year and the candidates have until then to pass the test. That's ridiculous.
why the candidates were not asked why certain items were placed into one category as opposed to another?
It happened because the candidate in question didn't make nine items meant for nine categories, they just made nine items and then had to force them into nine categories somehow. They hadn't made those nine items with the idea in mind that they had to go into nine separate categories. I was there, I watched it happen. There was no clerical error, there was no conspiracy, there was no mistake, there was just poor preparation. Or poor understanding of the Corpora requirements for qualifying. Whatever the case, this was a situation created by the candidate, who says that its because they weren't given enough help.
To ANYONE who EVER wants to run for high office... READ THE CORPORA. If you don't understand the most basic requirements for qualifying, then ask someone. Then ask someone else. Then ask someone else. Then read the Corpora again.
EDIT: I'd also like to point out that a lot of this is assumption. That they didn't qualify was announced, but the scores weren't. For all we know, it wasn't the category issue at all at fault for the lack of qualification.
Post edited by: Talisin, at: 2006/06/07 21:37Tal
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Gone
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/08 00:38Tal wrote: There apparently were tests there; why that wasn't made known, I don't know.
I would like to know why also because I asked about them twice. Once was to Artimus who said he asked but was told they weren't there so I asked Totem (the person running A&S) who said that the person who was supposed to have the tests was not there. I figured she was right seeing as I know she doesnt lie.
Tal wrote: Tests were announced as being available back in the middle of May on the list.
That very nice, but Darkmoon STILL doesnt have them. I was told by Totem it was not for lack of asking for them.
Tal wrote: It happened because the candidate in question didn't make nine items meant for nine categories, they just made nine items and then had to force them into nine categories somehow. They hadn't made those nine items with the idea in mind that they had to go into nine separate categories.
Actually I made 14 items. And no I was not trying to force them into categories I was trying to figure out what categories they went it. I also had them in 10 different catagories (not 9). I have the sheets with all the scores on them. I know what each item was in what catagory and what score it got from which judge.
Tal wrote: I was there, I watched it happen.
Oh and by the way Judge 1, Judge 2, etc... I heard Totem assign each of these as I was still entering my items. I know what judge is whom. Yeah I'm not supposed to, but then again the judges aren't supposed to know who's items are who's as apparently YOU did. After all you were there and watched it happen. So much for autonamy.
Tal wrote: There was no clerical error, there was no conspiracy, there was no mistake, there was just poor preparation.
Poor preparation I will admit to. Yes it was poor preperation. I was working on 20 items and some didnt get finished because I didnt have the time. Also because I was working under such time constraints that I didnt have time to make the items well. I could have done better with more time, but 4 weeks is not enough time when you have a family who also needs you. (Yes I actually have a life outside of the game. )
Tal wrote: Whatever the case, this was a situation created by the candidate, who says that its because they weren't given enough help.
I am not saying that the only reason was because I was not given enough help, I am saying that that was one of the factors in the whole situation. Sure in the end it was MY FAULT! I have said that time and time again, yet I keep getting attacked saying that I am not. How many times do you want me to say it? Do I have to scream it from the rooftops to make you happy?
Tal wrote: EDIT: I'd also like to point out that a lot of this is assumption. That they didn't qualify was announced, but the scores weren't. For all we know, it wasn't the category issue at all at fault for the lack of qualification.
Actually I DO have the scores as stated before. I have the judges notes. Example: note on painted mini (which in Darkmoon is 3D art and the painting of minis is not spacifically stated in the corpora as to where they go) painting on objects should be 2D art -1 point. I lost a whole point because it was in the wrong catagory. And yes that one point would have taken the score from a 2 to a 3. 2 not passing, 3 passing. Guess it WAS one of the issues. 4 out of 5 judges scored it as being out of catagory and deducted points for it. The one who didnt was Totem (a serpent knight) who was the one who told me to put a different mini I had entered in that catagory in a Darkmoon A&S tourney last year. Our reasoning: a mini is a 3 dimentional object and there for put into the 3D catagory. But as I was told later I did not MAKE the mini, I only PAINTED the mini so it should go in the 2D catagory. Makes no sence to me, but hey 4 out of 5 judges said so (at least 3 of them serpent knights as well) I guess it must be so. There for lesson learned. If I were ever to enter another A&S tourney (which I am not EVER going to do again) I would put my mini in the 2D catagory. Even though I STILL feel that 3D is the correct catagory (see below)
Tal wrote: To ANYONE who EVER wants to run for high office... READ THE CORPORA. If you don't understand the most basic requirements for qualifying, then ask someone. Then ask someone else. Then ask someone else. Then read the Corpora again.
BTW... Corpora states only (taken from the downloaded copy of the updated virsion from this web site) check it yourself if you like.
Sence when is a mini (Flat)? I would qualify a mini as sculpture.
So even if I had as you so blatently beat into the ground read the corpora (which I did, but did not have one with me) the corpora is vague on exactly where a mini would go. Again I dont see how a mini is (Flat).
I would say that what catagory something goes into can be very subjective.
If I had had my items in the right catagory I would have passed crown quals. My biggest mistake is in trying to run with so little time to make the items and study the rulebook and corpora. My next mistake was letting all of this get to me the way it has and making myself sick over it.
I will never again run for any office, Imperial, Baronial or what not.
Post edited by: Katheryne, at: 2006/06/08 00:44
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Gone
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/08 00:39Wow that didnt work right
EDIT: Ok now it works
Post edited by: Katheryne, at: 2006/06/08 00:45
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Talisin
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Re:June 2006 All thing - 2006/06/08 01:52Actually I made 14 items. And no I was not trying to force them into categories I was trying to figure out what categories they went it. I also had them in 10 different catagories (not 9).
I understand you had more than that. But what you said, that day, was that you did not realize you needed nine categories and had doubled up on a lot of categories so they had to be farmed out to other categories (i.e. two weapon entries so one was put into passive instead). More on this in a bit.
I have the sheets with all the scores on them. I know what each item was in what catagory and what score it got from which judge.
And you have those why?
Oh and by the way Judge 1, Judge 2, etc... I heard Totem assign each of these as I was still entering my items. I know what judge is whom. Yeah I'm not supposed to, but then again the judges aren't supposed to know who's items are who's as apparently YOU did. After all you were there and watched it happen. So much for autonamy.
I assume you mean anonymity. Frankly, there are very few A&S tourneys where judges don't know or recognize some items. And if you were concerned about it, you shouldn't have been talking about your items and not having enough categories and so on in front of the judges. What I am referring to was being present to witness your complaining, which was very detailed and specific.
And bully for you, you spied on the judge's proceedings. Do you think I care that you know which scores were mine? If I weren't prepared to back them up, I wouldn't give them.
And yes that one point would have taken the score from a 2 to a 3. 2 not passing, 3 passing. Guess it WAS one of the issues.
I don't think you understand how the scoring system works- it isn't a straight average. I believe your miniatures did both qual. So perhaps you should wait for the actual score sheets before you continue bitching.
Makes no sence to me, but hey 4 out of 5 judges said so (at least 3 of them serpent knights as well) I guess it must be so.
There were only two serpent knights judging, but it really doesn't matter. That is a very old debate. One side of that argument is that when painting a miniature, you are laying a 2D layer over a 3D object, therefore it should be 2D, because true 3D art means you are creating a three dimensional object, and painting a 3D surface is not creating a 3D object. Others argue that it's a 3D medium and should count as 3D. Others say it should be its own category. Judges who disagree with putting miniatures into a 3D category do usually factor in a penalty, and for most of them it's a small penalty. Of course, not everyone looks at it in the same way. As I said- I believe from what I heard on Saturday that both of those items qualed and you are using sheets you shouldn't have to calculate the scores incorrectly.
If I had had my items in the right catagory I would have passed crown quals.
I am willing to bet that when the scores are posted, you will find this to be an incorrect statement. I suspect that entering arrows in passive is one of the things that might have caused you to fail to qual. If they had been entered in weapon, you still wouldn't have qualed because you already had a weapon entered, which means you'd still be short a category. That was one of the things you talked about at length on Saturday- it was a little hard to miss.
I am not saying that the only reason was because I was not given enough help, I am saying that that was one of the factors in the whole situation. Sure in the end it was MY FAULT! I have said that time and time again, yet I keep getting attacked saying that I am not. How many times do you want me to say it? Do I have to scream it from the rooftops to make you happy?
It wasn't an attack, it was a summary of what I interpreted from your words.
Up until you started posting on this thread, I was trying to be supportive and felt sorry for you for being thrust into the middle of things that were not your doing.
I have been trying very hard to be fair and explain my take on what went on. My writing style tends to be viewed as confrontational simply because I don't tend to sugarcoat things and I'm pretty blunt. Sometimes I try to tone that down as much as I can, other times I don't bother. It doesn't change what I say, just how I say it.
This, however, is an attack: The moment you started broadcasting your son's problems onto a public forum as part of your excuses (or maybe it was a play for sympathy, I don't really care which), I stopped bothering to tone it down. That was disgusting, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
I think you will find that when you look at the correctly tallied scores that you are wrong about a great number of the assumptions you have been making.
Post edited by: Talisin, at: 2006/06/08 01:55Tal
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and have talked to Takezu a little about Glitterbeards/Chopstock and hope to talk more with him about that.
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