Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 17:31Ok i missed that topic.........but lets clarify something Pro.mag. states treat imbued weapons as regular weapons,ok at that is a sorcery spell. So magical progectile is also sorcery so wouldnt you treat it the same. Same spell type almost same effect other tham you can stack Mag proj. Then pro proj. would take effect and negate the hit."if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Hoshi Akuma
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 18:47ok now here's one can you still use greater missle block while in Sanctuary?When there is no light, there is dark; When there is no dark, there is light; When there is both dark and light, there is Bendu
Did they look like psychos? They were f%$#in' vampires. Psychos don't explode when sunlight hits'em, I don't care how crazy they are. - S
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Grendel
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 18:49of course, sanctuary doesn't negate your abilitiesDragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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Rewth
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 20:20the key is that magic proj increases damage. damage isn't magical and can't be negated. the imbued weapon adds a magical effect of "wounds kill" in addition to the damage. you still take the damage from an imbued sword if you have pro magic, but you ignore the wounds kill part cuz its a magical effect in addition ot the damage.
as for greater missile block in sanctuary... absolutely. there's nothing that states you lose other abilities while in sanctuary. though, i'm gonna pimp slap someone if they try to self heal while in sanc."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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orion
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 20:29BUT IF SOMEONE IS WERAING ARMOR AND HAS PRO MAG AND GETS HIT BY AN IMBUED SWORD HE BLOWS OF THE HIT. THE SWORD LOSES ITS MAGICAL ABILITY TO CAUSE DAMAGE. THAT SHOULD STAND FOR STACK P.P+P.M .P.M NEEGATES THE MAGICAL RPOPERTIES OF THE PROJECTILE WHILE P.P NEGATES THE PROJ."if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Rewth
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 21:40no. if someone is wearing armor and gets hit by an imbued sword they do NOT get to blow off the hit. thier armor stil ltakes damage fro mthe sword. if they ahve no armor, they take a hit from the sword. the ONLY thing pro-magic stops about that hit is the wounds kill aspect."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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orion
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 22:22That is what i mean they blow off the wounds kill aspect, so why dont you blow off the magical damage added.that is the properties of magical projetile i see your point that it points out that P.P does not stop it. but it aint magical to someone that has P.M. what i ment by armor blowing off (whoo) is that you dont get killed its just a point."if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Rewth
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 22:31no such thing as magical damage. its just damage."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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Grendel
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 22:38the point that Rewth is trying to make is this, the magic makes the arrow do more damage, however the damage itself isn't 'magical'
I agree that in a common sense world a pro projectile would stop a projectile, no matter what the damage, and that a pro magic would stop the magic, so I agree a pro project stack pro magic would stop a magical projectile, however this is how our rulebook is written.
Tolken made this point about it (see the discusson on esam here)
The arrow would hit doing full damage, including the extra points from the Pro Projectile
In previous discussions about Bladesharp and Pro Magic, it was pointed out that the weapon does the damage and not the enchantment. Therefor, Pro Magic does not stop any of the damage.
Using that same logic, Pro Magic would not stop any of the damage from the arrow. And since Pro Proj does not stop projectiles with Magical Projectile on them, it passes through cleanly.
Even if you wished to argue that Pro Magic stops the extra damage given by the Magical Projectile, it does not change the fact that the arrow still bears Magical Projetile. Pro Magic is not a Dispel. The enchantment is still there even if it doesn't effect the target, and Pro Projectile doesn't say that it does not stop Magical Projectile. It says it does not stop weapons bearing Magical Projectile.
edit to add: from the rules link on this forum Protection from Projectiles (E, Protection) C: Wizard 3 M: Enchantment cloth I: Repeat x10 'Protection from projectiles,' tie cloth on person or object. E: Protects from all non-magic projectiles. L: Ineffective against magic balls, the Dagger of Infinite Penetration, and weapons bearing Magical Projectile. N: Will stop Siege Weapons that are projectiles.
Protection from Magic (E, Protection) C: Wizard 4, Healer 6 M: Enchantment cloth I: Repeat x10 'Protection from all forms of magic,' tie cloth on person or object. E: Blocks all forms of magic, even beneficial magic such as Heal and Resurrect. N: Treat weapons with Imbue Weapon cast on them as normal weapons.
Magical Projectile (E, Sorcery) C: Druid 2 M: Projectile (arrow, javelin, throwing knife, etc), enchantment cloth. I: Hold projectile in free hand, repeat x5 'May this projectile strike true,' tie cloth to projectile weapon. E: Projectile will do one more point of damage than normally done by the projectile type. If this increases the damage to five points or more, the projectile damages shields as a red weapon that can be counted as strikes on shields even when used as piercing weapons. L: Monks may still block these projectiles without penalty. N: This enchantment may be simul-cast up to four times, providing four additional points of damage to the projectile.
the pro magic gives protection from all forms of magic, however it doesn't cancel the enchantment - pro magic is not a dispel. and the damage isn't 'magic damage' from the magic projectile, it's just got an enchantment that makes it do more damage, damage is damage, it's not magical damage. so the arrow comes flying at you, it's bearing the enchantment 'magical projectile' which specifically is not protected from by a pro projectile, the magic projectile does not give a magical effect like a wounds kill sword does, it just gives it more damage, so the pro magic has no effect against it. it goes through for full damage on whatever valid target it hits.
Post edited by: Grendel, at: 2006/07/20 22:43Dragoon Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy. Hús Vetra Skald IMU
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orion
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/20 23:50But read imbue weapon since thats the only example they give it states that " treat weapons with imbue weapons as normal damage" That is also an enchantment your not dispelling it your jsut not effected by the magic so then its a normal arrow nd does not effect you. And also this is a very Grey area As per Rules of magic:17 higher level magic is more powerful. its only a druid two while the pros rank 3rd and 4th also: 18: Common Sense should be applied.
Post edited by: orion, at: 2006/07/21 00:13"if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Rewth
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/21 03:06imbue weapon is the ONLY extra note listed. meaning it is the ONLY case.
damge is damage it is not partly magical and able to be partly negated. its as simple as that. when you hit someoen with a bladesharped sword you call "TWO" not "One plus one magic". when you hit someone with a magic projectile you call "Six" not "Five plus one magic".
bladesharp and magic projectile and any other effect that increased the damage dealt by a weapon, be it a melee weapon or projectile or arrow are not effected by the presense of protection from magic.
as another way to see it, the enchantment is on the weapon. pro magic protects you from magic that effects you. you are only taking damage, it doesn't supress the enchantment that is effecting the weapon.
seriously, read the two threads you've been pointed at. this topic has been discussed to death both here and on e-sam. whats more, i've run this by three separate members of the original or current rules comittees. al lthree agreed with this interpretation. i know its confusing, and i know it doesn't make logical sense. but that has nothing to do with how the rules play out."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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orion
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/21 04:50Still pretty grey could use some clarification. Its a prety pricise situation soo.....ah, ill still block it with my hand .done deal.I do see your point. if thats the only case and not an example. Sweet now i know. thanks"if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Rewth
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/21 14:30oh.. .you can't hand block it either. i made a "clarification" three weeks ago that magicprojectiles are uneffected by missile block and greater missile block. as a master archer, i figured i needed a leg up against you master monks and i decided to abuse my authority.
(i'm totally kidding. that was NOT serious. blocking is still groovy)"But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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orion
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/21 15:48You know i hope they put in there if the monk your shooting at catches your projectile for longer than 1/2 a second he calls a shoot on you,now that would be grooooovvy"if they wont take the first shot,hit harded, if that dosent work ,hit cleaner. if that dosent work ,practice.
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Rewth
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Re:Weapons in Sanctuary - 2006/07/21 16:38the only proposed changes to monk that i am aware of are:
Adding Reach Weapons to thier weapon list. Making thier heal extraordinary instead of magical Making thier Touch of Death 2/game instead of 1/game
of which, i think the heal is almost definitely going to pass. adding reach weapons MIGHT happen (and pole may be taken away, but i doubt it). the touch of death seems to be fairly divided and will prolly come down to heavy discussion, but ultimately i don' expect it to garner the necessary 75% to pass."But right now I'm a little concerned about my pants, since I don't know where they are." - Valathina Nailo
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