Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/19 07:07Hey there all, question... What is the Amtgard stand on the factory made, polyurathane injection molded weaponry, such as Calamacil, Iron Liege, Ect.? I have a Sword from Calamacil, very realistic feel, looks like a real sword, but is injection molded Polyurathane foam. Several games around the US have allowed this type of weaponry, and it is the standard in Europe. What is the dealio here?Fortes Fortuna Juvat
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Lokin
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Posts: 174
Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/19 07:16The question is... do they conform to rules in the rule book?
Strike-Legal: This refers to a portion of the weapon that is at least 2.5 inches in diameter (flat blades require 1.5 inches of foam on a striking surface and may not pass their tip through a 2.25 inch ring) and will not leave marks, bruises, or broken bones when used to hit your opponent. This is the only area of a weapon that counts as a legal blow. Stab-only weapons are still required to have six inches of strike-legal surface on any stabbing end for safety.
Because unlike some other LARPS we actually use our weapons... quite regularly... and we do hit each other with them.
Post edited by: Lokin, at: 2008/10/19 07:42
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Druden
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/19 08:58ok, as far as the rules go, bruising happens regularly, so that one is out, and no, it won't pass through a 2.5 inch ring. I have had experience with Dagohir groups both here in Colorado, and in AZ, and home made weaponry, while cheap, is often dangerous as hell! I see blades fly off the core regularly, and tape and cloth coverings suck. Why do games here in the US seem to be so resistant to change? Evolution is inevitable, Dag is huge, but seems to be the most resistant to change in weapon format. The unrealistic play with home made boffers is ridiculous? real swords 36 inches long don't Weigh 10 ounces!Fortes Fortuna Juvat
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Druden
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/19 09:02I played with a group of guys in new mexico that fought with bamboo shiani, and lacross masks and gloves, we went home with wicked bruises, and felt every strike, there really wasn't any mamby pamby questioning weather or not a strike was effectiveFortes Fortuna Juvat
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Lokin
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/19 18:56You know that's nice and all but Amtgard was built on the premise that anyone can play the game. We don't want to force people to pay an assload of money in order to play our game. And so a giant homemade culture is normal.
And if you create a strong weapon making culture at your park... the problems from dangerous weapon making hardly come up. Homemade weapons when done correctly don't have their blades falling off the core. I know all mine don't shotgun at all...
The rules specifically state what is and is not a shot. If you don't like it that it's not realistic go and play another game. As for bruising... I can still say that I have not received a bruise from an Amtgard weapon since starting a little over a year ago. All the weapons that I have encountered just thump...
Post edited by: Lokin, at: 2008/10/19 19:14
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Kota Kiaba
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 04:48We do not want to scare people off. If we are using weapons that cause bruises, most newbies wont come back. Home made weaponry is only dangerous if it is made incorrectly. Also if it used in an obviously dangerous fasion, but that is a bit more rare.Kota Kiaba Wolf cub
Sesame Street is brought to you today by the word Manipulation, and the phrase Brain Washing.
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Druden
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 06:27I can understand your point, but the new age, polyurathane foam weaponry is safe, and looks, handles, and feels so much more realistic . My only point in this posting was to find reasoning for current rule structure, not to incite a malestrom from long time players. Not sure the Amtgard system is for me anyways. Not so much into the magic aspect, and the home made weaponry just is sillyFortes Fortuna Juvat
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Rafeki
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 06:37you're playing a boffer game, and you call something silly?
Get the fuck out?Kung Fu is about the cultivation of the spirit.
"After all, all Dragoons are stupid and lazy" -Cruz
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Druden
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 07:13folks are worried about newbies being scared off by bruises, but people tell me to fuck off for asking a question? nice, that is precisely the reason people gave you wedgies in high school. I was simply stating that a viable alternative to home made boffers exists, and you tell me to get the fuck out? wow, nice.Fortes Fortuna Juvat
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Lokin
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 07:55Yeah but the way you approached the whole thing was in a condescending attitude. You were not just trying to point out that other options exist but was also coming off that the way we do things is inferior or even pussy. Dude, go play in Texas.
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Uncle Willie
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 09:58Druden wrote: folks are worried about newbies being scared off by bruises, but people tell me to fuck off for asking a question? nice, that is precisely the reason people gave you wedgies in high school. I was simply stating that a viable alternative to home made boffers exists, and you tell me to get the fuck out? wow, nice.
Druden, let me help you out.
You were not told to fuck off. You were told to get the fuck out, big difference. "Fuck off" means just that, go away. "Get the fuck out" means "are you serious?"
Rafeki wasn't telling you to go away, he was pointing out the hypocrisy in playing a boffer game and calling something silly.
Now, as for our swords. The weapons you are talking about run about $100 apiece. I can replace an entire weapons bag, to include poll arms and thrown weapons, for that much. Our weapons, when made correctly and wielded safely don't leave bruises or marks.
Amtgard is huge into the do it yourself ethos. We encourage our players to make, or learn to make, all their own gear. For the most part we build our own armor, sew our own garb, and build our own weapons. We actively encourage our players to find new ways to make and build weapons, provided they fall within our safety standards.
Our safety standards are such because we are Americans, and we live in a litigious society. As pro-tem Duke of the Iron Mountains if you bring out a sword that can pass a tip or pommel through a 2.25 or 2.5 inch ring, you drastically increase the odds of poking out an eye, and if that happens not only can the club get sued, but I can too.
Also, this is a game and we don't like to get hurt.
As for realism, who cares? We didn't join Amtgard so we could realistically portray armed combat anymore then I play Halo to better train myself as soldier. We are a fantasy based game (I hesitate to use the term LARP, as even the flurbiest Amtgard chapters don't approach the level of role play you see in most other games) and as such don't put a whole lot of stock in realism. Our rules and standards are a balance between realism, safety, and fun, and of the three realism is the least important. If you want realistic, why are you playing with boffers?
Furthermore, your exposure to Amtgard would appear to be quite limited. From the sound of it, you haven't ever played Amtgard, only Dag. Amtgard weapon tech is a regional thing, with newer, more isolated groups generally using poorly made equipment with inferior materials. For a time, emphasis in Amtgard was light weight weapons, recently that emphasis has changed. We are now moving toward balanced weapons and superior body mechanics.
And finally, don't jump onto someone else's game board and introduce yourself by telling us our equipment sucks, our rules are unrealistic, and that you don't like magic so you will probably not be playing with us anyway. That sort of thing is rude, and is not like to make you any friends or spark useful discussion.
Thanks for stopping by,
-WilliamI drink beer.
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Casca
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 14:50Druden wrote: I can understand your point, but the new age, polyurathane foam weaponry is safe, and looks, handles, and feels so much more realistic . My only point in this posting was to find reasoning for current rule structure, not to incite a malestrom from long time players. Not sure the Amtgard system is for me anyways. Not so much into the magic aspect, and the home made weaponry just is silly
Home made is silly? I've played a number of different systems that aren't Amtgard. I've hurt people with polyurathane weapons. I've hurt people with latex covered weapons. I have not ever made a weapon that hurts someone that was made to conform to the Amtgard safety standard and was maintained properly. I would kindly ask you to stop insulting us until, at the very least, you have bothered to play our game. Your closest comparison seems to be Dag, which if you have ever participated in Amtgard, you would know there is little comparison. So I insist that you stop refering to us and our system as "silly", "dangerous", "ridiculous", etc. This is not the way to win us over, especially considering that Amtgard has some of the best, most tallented craftsmen out of any LARP or reinactment group anywhere.Casca Eruoy
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Tremere
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Re:Polyurathane Weaponry - 2008/10/20 16:25It all comes down to this is a game. The game has a certain set of rules that must be adherd to or your not playing Amtgard anymore.
The rules are designed to allow the largest number of participants, from younger kids, to less physically capable adults, to women who do not want to get physically beaten on my strange men. One of the means that Amtgard uses to ensure the widest possible audience again is the homemade weapons. Every Amtgard park has a local champion who (at least should) checks weapons every week.
There are local events to share and teach sword (and other things) construction techniques to ensure safety, quality and other desired attributes.
It all comes down to finding a game, sport or martial art that fits your personal style and that you enjoy.
I am a 25 year martial arts veteran, I have played SCA and several other boffer fighting groups (including one in Germany and one in London). I no longer actively compete in martial arts. I got tired of bruises and the required expenditures in the SCA. I found a number of other LARPS did not have the action and combat I wanted.
I found Amtgard had the full speed, non-choreagraphed fighting that I wanted, but regulated in a way that limited almost all bruising and eliminated broken ribs and fingers. The groups I have played with have all actively encourage saftey and all had active Champions (safety officers).
I have been playing for several years now and I have never broken anything, I have recieved 2 bruises in the entire time I have been playing. That includes being knocked to the ground on many occasions by very powerful strikes, hits by polearms and other charging individuals.
You choose the game you want to play. Come out and play a couple days. See if it is what you like. Internet boards never capture the feel of a game.
Tremere
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